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MG TD TF 1500 MG TD/MGA CWP BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - MG TD/MGA CWP
| I bought a 4.3 Crown wheel and pinion which was supposed to be for an MG TD at an Autojumble in Houten Holland earlier this year. It is stamped 10/43. I have been doing the usual research and have Carl Cederstrands booklet and have read through the archives. When I went to source the bearings, I started to measure things up. I assumed that the CWP was from an MGA but when I measured the pinion shaft it was 1.125" and I think the MGA shaft is 1.25". This has me confused. Was there a 4.3 CWP ever available for the TD/TF? Could it be that I have purchased something from a different car or a CWP which is unfit for purpose. Does anybody have a dimension drawing of the MG TD/TF or MGA CWP for comparison? Any advice appreciated. Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Declan, I don't have a working drawing, but I have measured a pinion shaft which came from an MGA the diameters are: Rear bearing 1.25" Front bearing 1.00" These are correct and correspond to the IDs of both bearings. John 52 TD |
| J Scragg |
| If it helps the T has 6 splines for the pinion flange, the A has 10 |
| Dave Clark Arizona |
| Hello Delcan. Are there any part numbers on either the pinion or the ring gear. The TD/TF series only had 5.125(8/41), 4.875(8/39) and 4.55(9/41) ratios available from the factory. What you might have is a ring and pinion from a midget. The center line offset on the midget is different than the T series and can not be used. Butch Taras VMG |
| R Taras |
| Hello Delcan, I think Butch is right. The midget also used a 4.3 axle but with a different housing. May be you will find time to call me within the next days on mobile (0172 2110915). I'll travel to my home at the North Sea tomorrow for a few days of gardening work and I have a professional rebuilt 4.3 MGA pumpkin in storage there. I bought it for the same reason you mentioned but will opt for a MGB rear end as I managed to find the right TR2 rims for this setup on my TD and I feel better with the B's braking system. The pumpkin looks like new and I bought it at a rather competitive price and would let it go this way. If interested, just give me a call and I can bring it back to Viersen next Sunday, just 30 Kilometres west from Dusseldorf. My local no. is 02162 42648. Ralph |
| R.S. Ralph Siebenhaar |
| Declan, The original part numbers for the MGA CWP are: Crown wheel ATB 7157 10/43 Pinion ATB 7158 10/43 This should be stamped on each part. John |
| J Scragg |
| Thanks everbody for the replies. John, It is stamped Crown wheel ATB 7157 10/43 Pinion ATB 7158 10/43 So it should be right! It still has the inner pinion bearing on there so maybe that explains it. I measured the pinion shaft OD behind the bearing. Any tips on removing that bearing? Thanks Declan  |
| Declan Burns |
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| Declan Burns |
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| Declan Burns |
| Hello Declan. I dont know if anyone sent you the info about removing the bearing from the pinion. You can use either of the tools in the attached picture. One is the bearing removeal tool as described by Carl Cederstrand the other is a commercial bearing spliter. I hope that this helps. If you have any other questions about fitting the ring and pinion into a housing feel free to contact me. Sorry it took me so long to get the pictures. Butch Taras  |
| R Taras |
| Thanks Butch, Your help is much appreciated. There is a mention in the archives that VW shims can be used. Any idea from which VW? Regards Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Hi Declan, I have read that the VW shims are the crankshaft end float shims for the VW beetle (Käfer). If so, they should be the same as used in the 1200-1600 cc engine. They are easy to find in different thicknesses in the internet: http://www.machine7.com/section.php?xSec=2774&jssCart=b9c17409203f710090c491e9d87f411c http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volkswagen-Crankshaft-to-Flywheel-SHIMS-40hp-NOS-61-65-Beetle-Karmann-Ghia-Bus-/360457170145 Incidentally, I will do the CW conversion during this winter, and now am procuring all the required parts to do also a complete conversion of the differential. Jesús |
| J Benajes |
| Declan, Anglo Parts also sell these shims, you can find them in the MGA rear axle section. https://www.angloparts.com/fr/catalogues/group/2673 You need to know that Anglo Parts can be expensive. John |
| J Scragg |
| Hello Declan. The spacer between the pinion head and the inner pinion bearing will need to be ground (I do it on my surface grinder) from about .125 to .093 thick. The exact measurement is found by measuring with guages. The pinion spacer between the inner and outer bearing will also need to be ground down. You can get close by measuring the pinion spacer of the one you take out, but you will need to grind it to length to give a 15 in/lbs preload on the pinion bearings. Most of the time on setting the back lash between the crown wheel and the pinion I find that over the years the spacers have worn and also worn into the housing. I shim them out with arbor shims, these are steel shims of various diameters and are available in thickness from .001 to .020. You can serch for them on the internet to see who has them locally. Butch |
| R Taras |
| Thanks to you all-brilliant response! Regards Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| One more question. I noticed in the archives that two different carrier bearings are mentioned.6207C3 which is a deep groove bearing and 7207 which is an angular contact bearing. There is no mention of this in the Cederstrand notes or the Virgin rear-end conversion article. The B&G website shows a 7207B when you zoom in on the photo.Which is correct? Thanks Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Hello Declan. 7207 is the correct. This is due to the needed preload on the carrier bearings of .004 and an angular contact bearing is designed for this. Butch Taras |
| R Taras |
| Hi Declan. I forgot to mention that the 7207 bearings need to be installed in a certain orientation to take the thrust. Butch Taras |
| R Taras |
| Thanks Butch, Do you have a diagram showing this? Regards Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Hello Declan. I don't have a diagram. When you look at the bearing you will see that on one side of the bearing the inner race is narrow and the other side of the bearing the inner race is wider and is ground flat. The wider and flat ground side in the side that is pressed on against the carrier. The outer race is ground flat on the oppsite side that is the side which goes against the spacer in the housing. If necessary I could take a picture. I don't currently have one. Butch Taras |
| R Taras |
| Thanks Butch, Appreciated, a photo is always a help but I have understood. I notice there a quite a few varieties of the 7207 bearing. Some are listed with polyamide cages and reasonably priced and some with brass cages at about three times the price. Anything in particular to watch out for? Any particular brand? Regards Declan |
| Declan Burns |
| Declan, I had a similar problem with the front pinion bearing. the correct part number is 15100S, this is a heavy duty bearing, whereas the 15100 is the standard. the heavy duty is 10 times the price on the other. I was lucky as I found a 15100S on ebay for the cost of the standard. John |
| J Scragg |
| Hello Declan. The major difference in the bearings is the tolerence that they are ground to. The 7207 bearings(as are other 72xx series)are also used in groups of two or four back to back for machine tool spindles the need to have a run out of .000001 to get that precision they grind them very carefully. For the differential you only need the standred grade. On the pinion bearings you get the same thing. Also on the tapered roller bearings 3198 and if I remember right(I don't have a reference book with me) a 3199 are the same size bearing, the difference is the radius on the edge of the bearing. Butch Taras VMG |
| R Taras |
| Hello John. I looked up the 15100 and 15100S bearings both are bore 1.000, width .8125 the difference is maximum shaft fillet redii for the 15100 is .14 and 15100S is .05, because of the spacer between the bearing and the pinion head either could be used. Butch Taras VMG |
| R Taras |
| Thank you all-I have ordered the FAG 7207 B.TVP. |
| Declan Burns |
This thread was discussed between 18/09/2012 and 07/10/2012
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