MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - MGA rear end swap into TD

Greetings! I have just purchased a 52 TD with what appears to be an MGA rear end. It looks like the front hubs, brakes and the rearend are MGA parts for the purpose of converting the car to wire wheels. Looks great with wire wheels! The problem is that the center to center distance on the spring perch's is narrower than the TD rearend (I measured the rearend of a 53 TD and the difference is about 1 3/16" total) causing the rear shackles to bend inward. Not great! I've been told that this is a fairly common swap and should be no problem. What do you guys know about this swap? I've had lots of MGA's and MGB's in the past but this is my first "T" and I really don't know much about it. Help! Thanks Jim Goodwin
jim goodwin

I just took a quick look in the archives, and it seems that the spring perches can be cut and re welded to the proper width with out a problem...

SPW
Steve Wincze

jim, are you saying the mga differential is already on the car or it came with the car? the common mga-td swap i have seen is ring and pinion only. the other guys here may have more info...but i thought i had seen back in the archives the mga rear end was too wide for a straight swap into the td... tom
tm peterson

Jim
When I purchased my TD it also had been changed as yours but I believe the parts are from an early B.
It too was too narrow and during restoration we cut and rewelded the spring brackets they now seem to fit fine altho restoration is still not complete so I dont know exactly what I have.
John Shoemaker
John Shoemaker

Have met a couple of people (one at the show) who had installed the actual MGA rear end and had machining/cutting down (?) done...one chap there had it mated to an MGB engine...not original, but a great highway driver....!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Jim Goodwin -- When I got my TF 1500 it had an MGB rear end installed. The biggest problem was the bolt circle of the wheel studs. The PO was a mechanical engineer and had made aluminum adapter plates for the wheels but I don't remember what if anything he had to do to the spring perches to get it to fit. I got another CWP from an MGB and had it put in a proper "T" series axle housing.

If you like I will go out to the garage where it is and have a look. If he made any modifications I am sure I have the drawings for them.

Let us all know what you are going to do and how it is coming along.
Cheers,
Bob
R. K. (Bob) Jeffers

Jim,
You've got it right. Having the spring bundle
"tipped" in at the bottom makes for strange handling. The rear of the car shifts side to side when a bump is encountered on one side of the car or when cornering sharply. Feels kind of disconcerting. Rather than rewelding perches (which is rather permanent) I made spacer bushings (with longer bolts) for the rear shackles to shift the back of the springs inward enough to take the tilt out of the spring bundles. Although the springs are no longer parallel, there are no problems with spring action or or the attitude of the rear of the car. Car handles as it should, has a better top end and the wires do look good. It's funny, I tend to be an absolute purist with my '62 "A", but the TD already had enough after marked chrome and paint code/interior color deviations, that I don't seem to have a problem with the wire wheels or wrong axle. Too bad Abingdon didn't make TD's with wires to begin with. I'll just keep the original parts in case I change my mind.
Cheers,
Phil
The Other MG Brother - Phil White

I did this mod, as you describe, several years ago, but after a few years I had problems. the rubber bushes at the front ends (of the rear springs) wore unevenly so that the springs could twist, and this resulted in a twisting force being applied to the central bolts so that the holes in the chassis plates became oval. At the back ends the rubber bushes wore unevenly. In the end I had to have the axle taken off and the spring pads moved (not really a difficult job) and the oval holes in the chassis plates welded up and redrilled (a much more difficult job). The springs were OK, but I had to replace all the rubber bushes. In addition, the levers operating the shock absorbers were not moving the arms directly up and down. There was some sideways force, causing wear on the shock absorber pivots, so I had to have them bushed.
I suggest you investigate the above, and you will probably find you have to do the same. It was somewhat expensive, but the car does now handle much better.
Roger Wilson

I mentioned the MGB engine in the TD...looked at it and saw that the mods included cutting away some of the firewall around/under the rear carb. Is the MGA engine smaller and a better fit in the TD? Does the MGA transmission fit as well? (I'm due soon for an overhaul and have an MGA engine/trans available for the interim....!)
gordon lawson - TD 27667

As far as I know, the MGA and MGB engines are the same physical size. I have fitted an MGB engine with the Ford Sierra 5 speed gearbox, using the HiGear fitting kit, into my TD, and there was no need to cut any firewall or bulkhead. The work is rather involved, but not impossible, and I think the MGB engine is a better choice, as hills are now irrelevant. The 5 speed gearbox means I normally use only forth or fifth gear most of the time. However, there is someone in the north west of the USA who is currently fitting an MGB engine with it's overdrive gearbox into a TD, and I don't think he had to cut any bulkhead. He emailed me some photos, so I will look at them when I go home tonight and let you know; would you want to contact him direct, as I can ask him if he wouldn't mind his email address being passed on (preferably to another email address). I have photos of my installation, if of any use.
Roger Wilson.
Roger Wilson

I would be interested in seeing the installation...MGB engines are also available to me!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Hi All:

I bought a TF last year that had an MGB engine installed in it. Much of the work was done very well but some was pretty shoddy. I have redone most of the installation and have included an early overdrive transmission. I have changed the rear end to MGB and also all of the front suspension etc. I have installed a duel master cylinder and disk brakes. Very little cutting was involved – nothing that could not be replaced with 10 minutes of welding and even less if you do without the overdrive. . If anyone wants details please contact me and I shall be glad to share what I have done.
Also for the purists I also own a beautifully restored, totally original TF (3rd owner) with 54,000 miles on it. I just got this car and have enjoyed it so much that I can not describe the thrill of driving it. Nothing beats the thrill of an original T-series on a winding road in the cool of a summer evening.

Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

Gordon, I have looked at the photos sent to me by the person in the NW of the USA (who used the overdrive gearbox), and as far as I can determine, he did not cut any bulkhead or firewall. As John Crawley has pointed out, even if a small amount of a metal panel were removed, provided it was kept, someone later on could always weld it back in place if the original engine/gearbox needed to be installed.
Anyway, I left the discs containing the photos at home (I do my emailing at work), so I will email them to you tomorrow, but I need to check one thing. Do you have broadband - the picture files are quite large, and I do not want to clog up your email system.
With regards,
Roger Wilson.
Roger Wilson

Hi Roger... yes.. send away, my paycheck is direct deposited into a "Bell Telephone" account!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

The TD with the MGB engine/trans also had the brake/clutch cylinders mounted up on the firewall, so had a major chunk cut out and rewelded in... am sure there is an easier/less drastic way to handle that!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon, I used the original TD brake master cylinder, and have not fitted a brake servo. The car has the early MGA drum brakes, but these are 10" compared with the TD/TF 9"; it certainly stops much better, probably almost as well as disc brakes, as the car is lighter than an MGA or MGB. I just had to be careful about the threads into the MGA parts. The clutch is operated by the original TD/TF twin rod system, and works a treat. I had to make up a bracket held by three sump bolts, to hold the shaft that was originally from the side of the sump; the photos will show this. As the swivel shaft for the clutch operating arm, and the ("sump") shaft mentioned above are not in line with each other, then it is necessary to put a slight kink in the rod that runs alongside the sump, but two twists in a vice (vise) soon overcame that problem. My photos may not show that very clearly.
Best wishes,
Roger.
PS, All the work I have done makes the car much more useable, and helps to keep it on the road.
Roger Wilson

This morning I was 'envisioning' the attachement for the shaft and thought something would be easy to make up held to the sump bolts or frame... good to see I'm 'thinking' along the right lines...Would hate to chop holes in the firewall.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Hello Jim,

In the long thread on this topic I cannot not find out
whether your problem is solved.
I also have a TD and recently fitted a complete MGA rear axle and front end.

Everything works very fine, mainly because I also lowered the rear end.

I you want to know more, please let me know

Erik
Erik vanHardeveld

Wow! Such great response! Erik, no, the problem is not solved yet. Tell me about the lowering you did on your car. I thought this swap was a direct bolt-in with no welding or fabrication but responses from other owners seem otherwise. I might not have an MGA rear end afterall. I know it's not MGB, maybe it's from a Magnette. Gear ratio is 4.3, correct for a 1500 MGA. All of the parts I used to rebuild the front suspension and brakes are for a 1500 MGA. I'll take a look at the serial number on the front of the drivers side axle housing. Maybe that'll identify the rear end. I thought about making offset shackles but the bushes at the front of the spring would still be in a bind, though not as much as they are now. I'm reluctant to cutoff and relocate the spring perches as that would ruin a perfectly good MGA wire wheel rear end. Finding a t-series rearend might be the answer but would be expensive, have the wrong gearing (for highway use)and I still want the wire wheels! Meanwhile, I haven't driven this car except for a brief drive around the block when I bought it in May. The brakes were leaking after sitting for 20 years and the test drive was scary as the TD would dart to the left into oncoming traffic when the brakes were applied! I do love this TD and I'd like to get custom license plates for it but I haven't been able to condense "the little yellow bastard that's eating all my money and won't drive" into just seven letters. Thanks for all of your responses and if you think of something, please help! Jim
jim goodwin

You only real solution is the relocate thr spring brackets to the correct spacing for your TD. Who cares about "ruining an perfectly good MGA Axle", are you planning to put it back on an MGA?
You handling will suffer until the spring can move vertically and not at an angle.
Don Harmer

Jim -- For what it may be worth I looked at the MGB rear axle that came on my TF when I got it. It does not appear that the spring mounts were changed at all. THe two "U" bolts went one on either side of the welded on mounts. The plate at the bottom of the "U" bolts may have been fabricated for the installation, it's hard to tell without a TD plate to compare them to. Also it is possible that the "U" bolts are further apart than they are in a standard TD installation.

Keep us informed of what you find, please.
Bob
R. K. (Bob) Jeffers

This thread was discussed between 26/06/2006 and 06/07/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.