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MG TD TF 1500 - MGB Fan

I have acquired an MGB fan already bushed for the TD and painted black. One question to those that have one installed on their TD. There is a flat side to the MGB fan hub, and a recessed side. The blades' aerodynamic shape appears that the flat side should go against the spacer. Don't want to mount this backwards, so I have to ask whcih side goes against the spacer.

Also, can I assume that the spacer is bushed, not threaded? I always hate old rusty long bolts that love to twist off midway out :-( Almost every Jaguar SI-SIII owner has had this happen when trying to remove the thermostat housing to change stats.

Dave DuBois was kind enough to provide much info on bolt size, etc., (Thanks Dave) but I failed to ask about the spacer and mounting direction. Besides, as I could not find it in the archives, perhaps this thread will help someone else in the future. Any input appreciated.

Larry
L Karpman

Install the blades with the concave side to the rear (engine) side.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

Larry,
Tape a piece of cardboard against the radiator so it doesn't bite your fingures when you are trying to put in the screws !!

SPW
Steve Wincze

Thanks Sandy and Steve. I will be ready with my cardboard and my duct tape over the knuckles (as per dave DuBois :-)
L Karpman

Larry - Just helped a friend do this on his '53. Steve's note about the cardboard is "golden" if you don't wish to make a blood offering, but space is at a premium, so use the thinnest cardboard you can find. Poster board or a disassembled cereal box work just fine.

Seems like the recessed side faces the radiator, but Sandy's suggestion that the concave side faces the engine is correct. This modification made a substantial difference in my friend's car, though he was expecting it to sit and idle indefinitely without hitting 100 degrees. Not a very practical hope, in my opinion.

Best of luck - - Alec
Alec Darnall

OK Alec, thanks. I have two votes for the concave side facing rear. However an MGB owner says the concave side faces forward on his MGB. I'm confused by the difference :-(. Why would it be different on the two cars??

Larry
L Karpman

Larry - Are we confusing the recessed side and the concave side? When I speak of the recessed side, I am refering to the recessed side of the hub. When speaking of the concave side, it refers to the blades, in which case the concave side should face the engine. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Yo're right Dave, Sorry. It is probably terminology because the concave side of the blades is opposite the recessed side of the hub. Let's forget the blades for now. The HUB has a flat side, and a recessed side. Which side of the hub faces the engine?

Larry
L Karpman

It is the concave side of the blades that count.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

Larry,
The flat side goes against the spacer, the recessed side faces the radiator. This is how it's mounted in the MGB also.
Bob.
PS Check youe email, I sent you info about the side curtains
Robert Dougherty

Sandy: Agreed, but I just wanted to ensure we were all talking about the same part, so I just selected the hub. In case of the concave side of the blades towards the engine, it means the FLAT side of the hub goes towards the engine on the MGB fan I have.
L Karpman

Thanks again all. I can end this thread and state for future seekers of information, that the recessed side of the MGB fan hub faces the radiator, and the concave side of the fan blades face the engine. Should be absolutely no doubt what's what when looking at the fan, and this is confirmed by at least 4 T owners.

Say, ya think after 40 years as a helicopter pilot I should have aerodynamically figured this out :-))))
L Karpman

Larry - "ya think after 40 years as a helicopter pilot I should have aerodynamically figured this out" - not necessarily, as I remember from 40 some odd years ago of the helicopters on the USS Iwo Jima, their baldes were flat and were tilted for the desired angle of attack. If you really want to see blades that have exagerated shape to them, being very concave on one side, you need to look at the blades on a submarine propeller. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Larry - probably my bad, here, as I spoke about "concave" and "recess" in the same sentence, but your explanation is right on - the recess in the hub faces the radiator, and the concave side of the blades faces the engine.

A very small 1/4" ratchet, like a Snap-On, with an 8mm Metric socket (IIRC) just barely fit between the radiator and fan, so no chance to check torque with the radiator in place. Just go easy, as the 5mm bolts are smaller than American #10's.

Sorry 'bout any confusion - - Alec
Alec Darnall

No problem Alec. That's why they say, " a picture is worth a thousand words :-)" It's very hard to ensure that what you are describing will look exactly as the picture in your head to anyone else.
L Karpman

I have obviously missed the discussion about the application benefits of an MBG fan on the TD. I will assume it cools the engine better. On my 52 TD my father had rigged up an overflow tank for the radiator like on newer cars so the water would flow in and out of the radiator depending on the temp. I was little then so I can only assume it worked ok. Sure had no asthetic value from what I saw.
Rob Welborne

Hey Larry and David. 40 years as a pilot. USS Iwo Jima 40 years ago. Boy, I was just born:)
Rob Welborne

Rob - I too have a coolant recovery system on the TD (easy to do since the TD doesn't have a pressurized system). As for the fan, no it doesn't help that much with the cooling unless it is when you are stuck in traffic. Any time you are going over 20 MPH, more air is going through the radiator and engine compartment than any fan available can possibly pull through. I installed the plastic fan because I had read too many horror stories of fan blades breaking off and imbeding themselves in the radiator or bonnet. I just figured that a plastic fan blade would do significantly less damage if it breaks loose and flies around the engine compartment. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Rob,
Here's alink to O'Connor Classic Auto tech page with good info on both the fan swap & coolant recovery tank.
Bob doc
http://www.oconnorclassics.com/techtalk.php
Robert Dougherty

Rob & Dave:

Rob: Seems like only a short time ago to me, that 40 years :-)

Dave: Intersting note about plastic vs. metal fans. In my Jaguar circles, many have switched to metal fans, and ditched the plastic fans because the plastic blades tend to crack at the hub, and believe me a plastic fan blade can do significant damage to the engine bay area and bonnet. The thinking there was that slinging a metal blade was far less likely as they do not tend to crack at the hub like the plastic fans. Of course these fans are not 50+ years old either?

As for cooling, you are correct, and any fan is almost meaningless at speed. So, it IS the idle temp assist that I am looking for. A few degrees here and there helps, especially in the Texas heat.

I too have a midget coolant recovery bottle I just primed and painted with engine paint. I'm reading up on the best place to install it. Here again, no aid in cooling, but saves coolant that would otherwise go overboard, or into the engine bay, and lessens the frequency of topping up.

Larry
L Karpman

Larry - "no aid in cooling, but saves coolant that would otherwise go overboard, or into the engine bay, and lessens the frequency of topping up." It also helps keep air out of the system, thus reducing corrosion (theoretically). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Yes Dave, and air in the system can make a car run *considerably* hotter than it would if the air was purged. .
L Karpman

OK, I put the MGB fan in today. Holy nightmare! Well, not really, but what a chore tightening the bolts when in place. Good advice given to tape knuckles and cover radiator with cardboard was heeded. Absolutely no room to maneauver with a tiny 1/4 drive ratchet. Well, a little. The basic contorsions necessary are created by the recess on the MGB fan where the bolt heads are inserted. Inserting the bolts in the fan grommets just barely, helped to get things started, but it took several tries slipping the fan in front of the spacer without one or more of the bolts falling out. Then, once the bolts are nearly tight, the socket just barely is able to grab the heads, as the rim of the recess stops the ratchet.

Now I'm sure there's an easier way to do this, and many of you have done it with ease, but for me it was a chore. Hope it proves worth the effort.

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, I have some photos of my coolant recovery tank on the TD if you need them.
Jim Merz

Sure Jim, I was planning on mounting mine tommorow in the same place as Bud Kriger's, with the tank strap bolted to the battery brace, and the tank facing forward. Short one nut right now :-) I'd like to to see the pics, as I always like to see alternatives. THanks again for that fan too! You can post a link here, or email them to me at:

lkarpman@comcast.net

Thanks

Larry
L Karpman

Larry,
I cheated when I put my fan on...combined it with pulling the radiator to have it cleaned & hot tanked...no skinned knuckles when there's no radiator!!
Robert Dougherty

Yep, that's the way to do it, but I wasn't going to wait for that as my tank was recently done (or so I have been told :-). Never know.

So, my fan is on, the recovery system is in and ready to go, and it's starting to rain :-(( Supposed to rain today and tomorrow. Dang!

Larry
L Karpman

Larry - Don't let the rainstop you, the cars came preshrunk :) Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

"Don't let the rainstop you, the cars came preshrunk :) "

Yes, but I didn't :-) No front side curtains.

Anyway, I did get a nice short drive in. Temps are mild today (high 70'sF), so I couldn't test effectiveness of the new fan or the overflow bottle. Engine temp stayed pretty much nailed at 80C.
L Karpman

This thread was discussed between 08/10/2006 and 15/10/2006

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