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MG TD TF 1500 - Moss engine lift bracket question

Has anyone out there used the Moss engine lift bracket (thanks LaVerne!) that bolts to the 2 valve cover studs? I'm wondering if the 2 flimsey looking "thumb nuts" that hold my valve cover onto those studs are strong enough to hold the weight of the engine or should I use different bolts (8x1mm I've read)? For that matter, are the 2 studs strong enough? I hope so, else I assume Moss would not sell the bracket!
efh Haskell

The studs should be fine Ed. Don't use the thumb nuts though. Find some nuts that fit (should be two under the valve cover) and washers.
LaVerne

IMHO, there is no way in the world I would lift my motor with those two tiny, fine-treaded studs. Pretty much all of the studs on my own TD and the other cars I have fiddled with had stretched threads, and were really shot/ready to break. You can just loop around the pan wih a chain or rope, as pictured in the factory manual with no problem. Or make two brackets that bolt on to the rear cover plate and front water outlet and use new strong bolts. George
George Butz

Vince (vping@optonline.net) makes some nifty brackets that nicely fit the front and back of the XPAG engine for lifting.

Tom
t lange

I agree with George. I would never trust the weight of the engine to those two small studs for the valve cover. I too use a big rope around the back of the pan and just aft of the front engine mount as shown in the shop manual.
Jim Merz

I used the Moss lift bracket with no ill effects whatsoever. It held the engine until I was able to fit the engine back into the frame. I found this to be so much easier than the chain system I used to take the engine out. Photos of both procedures can be seen on my web-site: mgtf54.blogspot.com. You'll need to click on the August posts and scroll down (way down) to see the photos of both chain and Moss bracket uses.

Cheers -- John
John Brickell

At my stage in life, a simple bracket wasn't enough.

To remove my PA engine, I resorted to the "Big Red Engine Hoist" (Google it). It tilts, and made removal quick and painless - and a one-man job. I got a couple of 6' Nylon slings to complete the kit.

I got mine from JC Whitney on a one-day sale for $15.95. Pep Boys and Harbour Freight also sell it.

Great value ... but my back is still bad!

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Ed, I used two of the double loop flat eye webbing slings 2' x 6.5'. Sling has a vertical load capacity of 2000 lbs. Picked them up at Harbor Freight. I installed the eng and trans as a unit. As the tub and and radiator were still off it went quite well. What I liked was no damage to the paint and being able to position them for the best angle.
Mike
Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

ed, i fabricated a copy of the moss bracket in about 15 minutes. the only strain those studs have experienced is the phenolic thumb nuts. i am not concerned about the strength of the studs or condition of the threads on those studs in my engine. i do use an engine leveler with my cherry picker to help maneuver the engine into the engine bay. regards, tom
tom peterson

I used the Moss engine lift bracket with a couple 8X1 mm nuts to remove the engine and transmission but have been considering if I will trust it to install after rebuild.
I saw Vince's brackets a while back and they look like the trick.
Richard Taylor TD3983

I used them several times when removing the engine and gearbox from my MGB with no ill effects. However the last time I did the stud snapped and the gearbox flange caught my chin leaving a small scar. So no I would never use this method again.
Tony
Tony Shoviak

My recommendation is to use the webbing slings that Mike described. I found them to be very strong and forgiving to to my newly painted block. The eyes hook right on to the hook of the cherry picker and it is easy to tilt and manouver the engine as you please.


Phil Atrill

I would definitely want new studs prior to using the lift bracket method. However, I made a simple sling as well, using 1/4 inch vinyl covered cable. Keep in mind the completed engine only weighs 326 lbs. Depending on the angle of the engine and location of the sling or bracket, each location is only holding between zero and 326 lbs.

warmly,
dave


Dave Braun

Interesting question. I did a simple calc assuming the studs are 1/4" or 5/16" dia, 4" long, unrestrained at the top and the engine weighs 375lbs. My engine's in the shop so I can't measure them! Long time since I did any figuring so I could have got this completely wrong. You'll tell me if I have I'm sure, in which case I apologise for bothering y'all.

The studs are easily strong enough to suspend the engine but I would use a proper nut, 2 if possible on each stud. By the way I think you'll find fine threads are stronger than course threads as they have more TPI in contact to take the stress.

The problem arises when you tilt the engine. This puts a sideways load (cantilever effect) on the studs and, unless they are restrained at the top in some way, you wouldn't have to tilt the engine much at all (which you have to do to take it out) to put a bending moment on the studs which would cause them to exceed their elastic limit. The fatigue caused by tilting the engine and reaching the elastic limit, possibly several times, is undoubtedly why Tony's gearbox hit him in the chin!.

So, if this is to work reliably, the studs need to be restrained somehow to take the sideways load when tilting the engine.

I looked at the lift on the US Moss site, couldn't find one on the GB site. Moss couple the studs with a bar across the top and sleeve them. This helps to stiffen and restrain them. Increasing their diameter with sleeves will lower the stress values. Don't know the sizes so can't make an estimate.

However, I would like to see the lateral load in the bar transferred to somewhere on the engine for this to work repeatedly. Is it intended that the rocker box fits over or under the bracket somehow? I don't see how, but the rocker box would help stiffen the studs and transfer the lateral load into the engine. I would also question why there are two holes at the end of the bar. Possibly they're for attaching the hoist but if they are meant for bolting the bar to the engine or rocker shaft this would definitely help to transfer the load.

To sum up, if you intend to use this, I should be very careful how far you tilt the engine if the bar is not restrained in the horizontal plane, I wouldn't use it too many times before changing the studs.

Truthfully I probably wouldn't use it at all on an engine I've spent several hundred ponds restoring, there are much better suggestions in this thread!

Hope this helps.

AJ
A R Jones

Thanks all, some great ideas!

I used Dave's plastic cables when removing the engine with a rented hoist. It's winter here now and getting a hoist up here is dubious at best, and expensive. The tranny is off the engine, external engine parts removed, and chasis is bare so I don't anticipate much tilt. I was thinking of simply inserting 2 strong eye bolts into the 2 end holes on the Moss bracket and inserting a steel tube through them about 4 feet long with "U" bolts on either side to prevent pole from slipping. The engine is on a dolly sitting right next to chasis. 2 strong guys on each end of the pole, lift a few inches, step over chasis, lower engine onto front motor mount and floor jack or perhaps some blocks on rear. Then install tranny. Anybody wanna come help?
efh Haskell

This thread was discussed between 10/12/2010 and 13/12/2010

MG TD TF 1500 index

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