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MG TD TF 1500 - My distributor fills with oil..

Is there a seal in there on the shaft or is there a way to rebuild it? It runs great but it is spewing oil out onto my fender...
PJB Brouillette

There is no seal on the distributor drive shaft. excessive oil coming up shaft is an indication of an excessively worn bushing or the distance washer between the drive gear and the shaft housing that determines end play of the shaft. I have an article written some time ago by Carl Cederstrand that gives some information on minimizing this problem. E-mail me at SUfuelpumps@donobi.com and I'll send it to you. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Have you recently replaced the dizzy? If so be warned that there is a 'thread' on the shaft that directs the oil back down into the engine and Lucas made these with both a left and right hand thread for different application. If you have the wrong one it will tend to pump oil into the dizzy. I know, mine was wrong.

Good luck!
Jim
James Budrow

I have not replaced it but that is a thing to check. The PO might have installed it backwards.
PJB Brouillette

after Advanced Distributors rebuilt my distributor, the problem was solved. The Cedarstrand instructions don't seem to solve the problem. They are posted on my website in the technical section.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Reactivated. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks for reactivating this thread,however as you can see, I have covered all the issues described. My new thread was hoping to get any new ideas .
As I said, it is a rebuilt distributor,all bushings etc are new there is no wear anywhere.
IW Martin

OK I will join this thread and continue the discussion, should make life simpler.!!

I have looked at the Carl Cederstrand instructions regarding drilling a hole in the groove at the bottom of the turret and then cutting a slot to allow the oil to drain back down into the sump.
This would on first sight look a fairly simple and straightforward solution to the problem.
I can easily drill and mill as required, but before I do this I would like to hear from anyone who used this particular method and how they found it.
IW Martin

Another thing to consider is excessive crankcase pressure. If you are getting blow-by between your rings and the cylinder walls the internal pressure build up could be forcing oil up the distributor shaft.
I had the same problem with my distributor and tried all of the above.
Since I had my engine rebuilt I have not had a drop penetrate up into the distributor. I attribute this to boring the cylinders and having a good fit with the rings.
Mort

PS: Are you getting a lot of oil leaking past your rear seal? This could also indicate excessive blow-by.
Mort Resnicoff

For W Mueller - the engine I use has distributor 40058A, without any bosses/holes. However, I had drilled two holes in the positions the bosses/holes would be, not as per the left hand distributor in my photo (I had forgotten I treated this distributor differently).
There is no play in the distributor shaft, there is no oil inside the body and the outside of the body under the holes is bone dry.
Not sure if that helps or hinders.
R A WILSON

Mort.. I did say in my original post that there were no crankcase pressure issues, the engine had in fact been completely rebuilt, and the vents are clear.
If I run the engine without the dipstick in place there is no sign of any excess pressure.
It does seem that this problem is not uncommon. Bill
IW Martin

On Jan T's suggestion I did an experiment.
I removed the Distributor from the car and immersed the bottom section in a small container of diesel oil,(assuming that this would be about the same viscosity as hot engine oil)
I then used a drill to spin the distribuor
in an anticlockwise rotation as in normal use and found that there was no oil coming up into the body.
I then spun it clockwise ,which meant that the scroll (or Archimedes screw if you prefer) was trying to move oil up the shaft, and found a small amount of oil eventually found its way into the body.
This would seem to indicate that the scroll is effective, but leaves me no further forward as to why oil is getting in.
I am looking seriously at he Cederstrand modification, and would be interested in anyone's experience of this.
Regards to all. Bill
IW Martin

One more point which has not yet been mentioned is how the shaft is assembled and its end float.
The shaft and plate should have a fibre washer pressed under the plate, this washer is part of the assembly, it does not have a seperate part number. I have seen distributors which had the washer replaced with some other material and has worn a deep groove in the body. If that is your case then you need to get the face machined flat. The end float 0.002" and is obtained by adjusting the thickness of the washer which is inbetwee the drive gear and the body.

John

52 TD
J Scragg

Hi John,Istarted this discussion on another thread, "excessive oil in distributor" And have brought all the discussion over to this one. In my Original query I did in fact say that the distributor has been rebuilt, in fact it is practically new. The end float is 1 thou. Which is what is recommended by the specialist. This will wear slightly .The correct fibre washers are in place.
IW Martin

IW Martin - my distributor was getting oil into it and I researched this about a year ago.

Responses received to my direct inquiries from Butch Taras and from Martin Jay, the "Distributor Doctor" over in the UK, both indicated that the cause is excessive end play. Mine was way out of tolerance at .040" - way above the .002" specification!

With yours at .001" and oil still moving up I'm really curious.

If you haven't done so already, you might want to check in with Martin Jay and see what he has to say. Here's a link to his web site:

http://www.distributordoctor.com/

I sent mine to Butch Taras and in addition to doing the work needed to set the end play correctly he also did the Cederstrand modification with the hole and the machining of the housing. An interesting difference is that rather than machining a groove into the housing he simply ground a flat spot into it to achieve a space for any oil to flow back down into the sump.

For the benefit of others following the discussion who aren't familiar with the Cederstrand modification, here's a link to a thread from last year - scroll down a few posts and Dave DuBois posted information with an image:

http://www.mg-cars.info/mgtd-mgtf1500-bbs/oil-in-the-distributor-2016012622494726788.htm

By the way when I was having this issue I also asked if anyone had a distributor with the Cederstrand modification. Like you I wanted to see if anybody had direct experience with it. There were no responses.

I haven't got my car running again since reinstalling the distributor, but expect to within the next couple of weeks. I certainly hope that the end float correction puts and end to it.

BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

Hi Bobby... I had my dizzy rebuilt by Martin "the distributor doc." and he asked for it to be sent back when I reported the oil issue. He did in fact check the end play as I did and as I said, it is 1 thou.According to Martin this will ease to about 2 or 3 thou in use.

So,at the risk of repeating myself, There Is No End Play.....None... Zilch.

Martin is at a loss as to why the oil is getting into the dizzy.
As I have had no response from anyone who has had the Cederstrand modification done, I am planning to go ahead and machine it .I will report back on the outcome.

Bill.
IW Martin

Thanks, Bill. I'll be following with interest to see what Martin Jay might find as the cause of the oil issue.

End play is clearly correct in your unit. With it having been just rebuilt by someone as reputable as Mr. Jay it would seem to eliminate things like worn bushings.

Here's hoping that upon further examining the unit he will find the cause.

BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

Hi Bobby.... I have received it back from Martin. He has examined it.
As I said, he is at a loss as to the cause of the problem.
Tomorrow I will machine it According to C. Cederstrand.
I will report back.
IW Martin

OK. Job done, I drilled a 5 mm hole in the body and milled a 5 mm slot as shown in the image.
When it stops raining I will road test the mod.

I apologise in advance to those purists who will throw up their hands in horror at my using metric drill and end mill. Sorry guys.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/turnberry/P1010003_zpshspcrg5r.jpg
IW Martin

Why apologise, the rest of the engine is metric anyway.
What I don't understand is that if it is crankcase pressure related then the pressure is the same at the dizzy thrust as it is at the relief hole. It looks as though the new path just drains the oil that gets into the dizzy and is not a cure but just stops oil messing the engine.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I stated earlier.. it is not crankcase pressure related.
IW Martin

Be careful of taking up end play with a washer between drive gear and housing. A small amount is ok but .040 is a lot. Why does this matter is the dizzy gear will be out of line with the gear on the cam shaft. To low. May need to put a spacer washer under dizzy to fix missmatch of gears. Forrest TD/C 22679
Forrest Rubenstein


I jumped into this thread on June 24 , and to recap, There is and never was, any end play.
Oil was somehow finding its way inti the distributor,making a mess and causing poor performance.
I machined the slot, drilled the hole and have run the car regularly now for 2 weeks.
Result.... an oil free distributor.

IT WORKS!!!!
No more oil ...and before anyone points out, I do know that I need to put a little oil in to keep the weights lubed.
Did I mention that end play was not the problem?

I still cant figure out how the oil was getting in though!
IW Martin

Thanks for the update, Bill. You're the first I hear reporting from first hand experience with that modification. It's good to know that it works.

Since it solves the issue it seems to point to oil having been working it's way up the shaft inside the housing. Could it be excessive clearance between the bushings and the shaft?

At any rate, thanks again for sharing your results. It will help others who are facing this issue.

Best,

BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

Hi Bobby,
I hope that my experience with this problem can help anyone else who has the same.
I did the modification on my lathe, I clamped the body ontothe cross slide and fixed the end mill in the chuck. It was a 5 minute job to gradually mill out the slot. and the hole was equally straightforward.
Without a lathe, it would be fairly easy,just drill the hole then using a decent file and lots of patience, the slot could be formed.It does not need to be accurate.
Alternatively, any machine shop would do it easily.
Happy motoring! Bill
IW Martin

Hi Bill,

2 weeks after modification no oil in the distributor.

What is the state 2 months later?

Thanks for a reply.
W_Mueller

Hello W
Indeed, after almost 2 months of having the modification in place and regular use of the car, I am pleased to report that the distributor is clear of oil. In fact I am being careful to ensure that I put a drop in now and again to keep the distributor lubricated. It would be ironic if the lack of oil resulted in premature wear.
I know that it is part of normal servicing that a drop of oil is introduced regularly.
As I said previously, the modification is very simple to carry out and the result speaks for itself. Bill
IW Martin

Thank you Bill - then it works.
W_Mueller

This thread was discussed between 04/04/2010 and 19/09/2017

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