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MG TD TF 1500 - Oil filter conversion

Has anyone replaced the early vertical oil filter with the later horizontal filter? The PO did and I'm having oil pressure issues (as in no pressure). I have tried every known solution posted on the Internet and still can not get pressure I'll bet if someone posts a suggestion in this thread I've tried it. Anyhow, I'm just wondering if the switch to a horizontal filter on an engine that was originally equipped with a vertical filter could cause pressure problems.

Tim
TD26711 with XPAG 14053
Tim Burchfield

The type of filter should have no effect.

What have you done - rebuilt the engine or just an oil change - I need these details before I offer suggestions ?.

Tony
A L SLATTERY

Tim, Have you removed the oil by-pass valve from the block? The later pumps had it in the pump. You don't need two. Have you tried to run without the filter? Is the pump turning? Tom
tom scott

I'm with Tony, what is the original history of this problem? Oil change, rebuild or other service/repair? BTW, the entire oil pump is changed when conversion done, and that will work just fine. George
George Butz

I bought the car with the understanding that the engine had been rebuilt by a PO but had never run. The rocker arm, pistons (from the bottom) and the timing chain appear to be new. When I had the oil pan off to inspect the pickup and screen I pulled a rod cap off. The bearing was new and unmarked. I have only tried to get oil pressure with the starter, not running the engine. I pressurized the system with a garden sprayer and had oil coming out of the tops of the valve rockers. The pump gears do turn. The pump itself has new gears and they are within tolerances reference the pump body. I did not remove the pressure relief valve from the block. I did inspect it and it is is in good shape. I haven't checked to see if the pressure relief valve in the filter housing has been removed. I have a spin on filter adapter but I haven't tried to run the engine without the filter. If there is anything else you need to know please ask. I'm at wits end.

Tim
Tim Burchfield

The oil pressure valve in the block HAS to be removed as this is the way the later pump pressurises the oil gallery.
After you have done that remove the plug on top of the pump and pour in oil. If it runs away then the oil pressure control ball is not seated.
If the oil stays then push down the ball valve and the oil should drain to the sump proving the pickup is clear(if it is an early pump it does not have this plug).
I have come across a couple of engines with a neat corroded ring around the relief valve ball) and one with the wrong spring.
hope this helps
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

meant to add that the valve in the filter housing is a blocked filter bypass and will not affect oil flow only its route
Ray
Ray Lee

Thanks Ray. I'm a little confused. When you say push down the ball valve which ball valve are you referring to. I guess the nomenclature is confusing me. My understanding is that the ball valve in the block is the oil by pass. And the ball valve in the oil pump is the pressure relief valve. And I now understand that there is a by pass valve in the filter housing. I'm a little slow sometimes (ask my wife). Which ball valve should I push down to check if the oil drains into the sump? I will remove the by pass valve in the block. Thanks very much for your help.

Tim
Tim Burchfield

Tim,
see fig A36 in WSM the priming plug is the one I mean and the poi pressure control valve is below it, if you don't have this plug it is an early horizontal pump.
The valve in the block is only used in the vertical filter layout as then the oil enters the gallery via the external pipe and the excess is diverted via the block valve.
On the horizontal filter type the oil enters the block where the earlier control valve was and now the pressure is controlled by an internal valve below the oil pump.
If you leave the valve in the block you are introducing a restriction in the system.
See Fig A7 for details
Ray
Ray Lee

Ray, that makes perfect sense now. I do have the priming port. I'll remove the by pass in the block and let you know the results. Again, thanks very much for your assistance.

Regards

Tim
Tim Burchfield

should have made it clear that on early engines the valve in the block is the blocked filter bypass and not the oil pressure control valve.
Ray
Ray Lee

Ray, it worked! I removed the block mounted by pass ball valve. I now have oil pressure. Can't thank you enough. Have a pint on me at the PUB of your choice and I'll Paypal you the cost. What a relief.

Regards

Tim
TD26711

Thanks to A L, Tom, and George also.
Tim Burchfield

that is the great thing about this site, people have got me out of trouble quite a few times, also made some good friends.
Ray
Ray Lee

Now that the original problem is solved can I please raise another query. I have had problems sealing the oil filter canister on my TF. I eventually solved this by brazing the domed washer to the end of the casing and using a soft copper washer under the bolt head. However I had considered making up an adaptor for a spin off filter but couldn't get the spigot on the pump to budge. Is the bother worthwhile?

Jan T
J Targosz

Tim,
I have been following your threads with interest but absolutely no recommendations. As one Buckeye to another, I'm happy for you that your problem is solved!

Bill TD24570
Bill Brown

That was on my list of suggestions to make- if the engine had never been run, but without the history pointless to comment. Glad that was it. George
George Butz

Bill, thanks. I wonder how many people know that when you convert from a vertical to horizontal oil filter you need to remove the block mounted bypass? Hopefully this thread will save them the frustration I had.

Go Bucks

Regards

Tim
TD26711
Tim Burchfield

This thread was discussed on 01/11/2017

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.