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MG TD TF 1500 - Oil pump prime

Tried to start the rebuilt XPAG today for the first time since 1974. Used a preoiler to lube the engine but forgot to pack the oil pump with Vaseline when I put it together. I turned the engine over without plugs, coil or petrol pump to get oil pressure but could get nothing after thirty seconds. Is there any way to prime the pump without pulling it which involves jacking the front of the engine. 8^( Thanks, JL
James Lea

You don't say which engine you have. I have a '54 TF. There's a brass plug in the pump for priming purposes. There's also a plug to the left of the one shown for priming the filter.

AJ
A R Jones

Sorry. A picture.

AJ


A R Jones

I've had to turn them over for five minutes or so on the starter to achieve oil pressure. Stop every 45 seconds or so to let the starter cool off and to squirt about a teaspoon of oil in the spark plug holes. If the tappet cover is off I also pour oil over the tappets I also continue to turn it over on the starter for a few minutes after achieving oil pressure before the initial start-up.
On a new engine I let it run for about 20 minutes and then I change the oil and filter. Change again at 100 miles, then 500 miles, then 1,000 miles. Wanna have some fun? Cut the oil filter open and strain your oil through a paint or coffee filter and look at all the metallic debris after the first and second oil changes.
If you want to run synthetic oil, wait until the engine is broken in first.
-David
D. Sander

James

I have an early TD and it also has a brass plug in the top of the pump that is for priming purposes. Brian


Brian Smith (1950 TD3376)

I pulled the top plug on the pump and there is oil up to the top of the threads. Turned her over another minute and still have nothing on the gauge. Maybe the gauge is bad?? Thanks, JL
James Lea

I doubt the gauge is bad. The XPAG sometimes takes a L-O-N-G time to prime. Just keep oilling the pistons so the rings don't run dry. It'll come up, eventually.
-David.
D. Sander

If you think it may be the gauge, disconnect the pipe at the back and make sure there's oil coming through.

Don't keep pulling on the starter. I can tell you from experience that if it doesn't come up in a couple of minutes something's wrong.

I fitted a spin on filter that stopped the oil circulating on my engine. I swapped it back to the standard filter and the pressure came right up in about a minute.

AJ
A R Jones

If you have something that will pull a vacumn you can pull the oil thru and it will start flowing. I did this on my 51 with a vertical filter. Used a visibleeder to pull a vac on the far side of the filter. I had a real problem this last time getting it to pull oil till I did that.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Pull the priming plug, fill with oil if not present, jack up back wheels, put in gear, turn engine backwards. Repeat several times. Then give it a try. George
George Butz

Pull the priming plug, fill with oil if not present, jack up back wheels, put in gear, turn engine backwards. Repeat several times. Then give it a try. George
George Butz

Jim, I went through the same thing a couple of months ago when I first tuned over the53's engine. It took almost 2 minutes of cranking before I had pressure on the gauge. Filling the oil filter takes a good bit of cranking. I removed the plug on top of the pump in addition to the priming plug and inserted oil into that opening, turned the engine over until the oil went down and did it again until it wouldn't take any more. Then I put the plugs back in. Make certain that the oil line connectors are tight or you'll not get a reading on the gauge. Loosen the line at the back of the gauge and observe oil at that point. Hook it back up and you'll have a reading. Good luck. Bud
Bud Krueger

Brian

Looks like someone had issues with priming and built that. Nothing like it on my early TD. But there is a plug towards the back. I built a fitting and hooked it to a oil gun and pressurized the system.
Bruce Cunha

I modified a garden sprayer to do the first fill of oil. It has a 'T' fitting that I put in place of the transition fitting for the flex oil line to the gauge line. Once the sprayer is filled with 5 quarts of oil, I hook an air line to the sprayer with about 20 psi going to it. I can watch the oil pressure start registering on the gauge and when all of the oil is in the engine, I replace the 'T' fitting with the normal fitting and hit the starter - instant oil pressure when the engine starts. I use the same set up for our MGB engine. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

After a lot of research and reading here is what I found out. Up to engine XPAG/TD2/14224 the oil pumps had a priming plug. You simply pulled the plug and filled the pump with oil before starting. After that number the cars were fitted with a new style pump that had the external oil filter head but no priming plug. Then with engine XPAG/TD2/20272 a priming plug was again fitted. My engine is 18844 so I have no way of priming the pump. I am reluctant to start the engine until I am sure of the gauge pressure so I guess I will pull the pump and either rebuild it if the tolerances are not correct or pack it with Vaseline and try again. The engine is a race engine stage two built by R&L in Dover NH and at over six grand I have too much money in it to risk starting without pressure. Better safe than sorry. I'll post the results after I find the solution to the problem. Thanks for all the help and advice. Cheers, JL

PS. I feel really stupid for not checking the pump out while the engine was on the bench.
James Lea

Jim, there's an overlooked oddity about using petroleum jelly (Vasoline) to pack the oil pump gears. It becomes useless if the engine is rotated backwards. Bud
Bud Krueger

James,

I have the exact same pump series on my engine (XPAG TD/2 15613) and primed it as follows:

Spark plugs out, I removed the lower banjo bolt and swung it, and the pipe out of the way. Using a turkey baster, I loaded that cross feed channel in the block with oil. Then, as George said, I put the car in fourth gear and turned the rear drum while restricting the movement of the opposite drum (the car was on Jack Stands, and I did not have the wheels and tires at the time). I used a four foot long timber between two studs to do this. I had a friend add oil as I turned the engine backwards. Two tries and I had prime. There are pictures on the engine > install section of my website, www.dbraun99.com

good luck,
dave


Dave Braun

James,

If this is a race engine, then you might want to invest in an Accusump. They aren't all that expensive and will ensure you always have pressure, even when slinging the car around on the race course.

You can also use it to pressurize the oil system before starting.

Just a thought.
David Littlefield

I tried the methods described above to no avail. While looking at the section drawing in the manual I couldn't see why a plug could not be added to the insisting pump so I drilled a 1/8" pilot hole in the top of the pump head. With the ball and spring out you can see right through the pump so I drilled an R hole and tapped a 1/8" NTP plug. The pump was completely dry and the spring and ball were out.I washed out the pump with a squirt bottle of Naptha, blew it out with the air hose and then ran a clean rag through the hole. No sign of filings. I attached the preoiler to the new plug hole and put two quarts of break in oil in at 40 lbs. Problem solved and now I have a priming plug for future use and the engine is running great with forty five pounds of pressure. Thanks for the help. This list is great!! Cheers, JL
James Lea

Jim, any chance that you can send an image of your adapter? Thanks. Bud
Bud Krueger

Been thru this problem 4 times in a week with my TF, the motor both insitu in the car and in a bench running stand.

Methodology that I found provided a solution;

1. Ensure oil level on dip stick is showing full.

2. Prime the oil pump via the plug installed for this purpose.

3. Prime the oil filter via the plug installed for this purpose ( be patient it takes time for air to escape from the filter cannister).

4. Crank the engine via the starter motor for a short period.

5. Reprime the oil fiter.

6. Connect a clean 3m length of clear tubing to the oil pressure gauge tee piece on the bulkhead.

7. Crank the motor at the same time applying suction to the open end of the clear tubing (mouth suction was sufficient in my case on 3 separate occassions). Once oil is visible in the clear tube immediately cease cranking (engine oil is not my sup) and reconnect the oil pressure gauge line to the tee piece.

8. Crank the motor you will have oil pressure.
G Evans

Here is a picture of the finished job. The only hard part was getting up the nerve to drill the first hole. Cheers, JL


James Lea

This thread was discussed between 22/12/2011 and 05/01/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

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