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MG TD TF 1500 - Original fuel lines
Were the original carb fuel lines a beaded steel overrubberlike the MGB or different? I looked at Chris's pictures and can't tell. Any recommendations on who would have something close to the original material? I have the shiny beaded moss ones,but am going for close to original on this restoration. |
Bruce Cunha |
That should say whiney woven metal ones. Shop manual pictures look more like a rubber hose. |
Bruce Cunha |
Bruce,
The 'modern' fuel lines on TDs and TFs notoriously look incorrect ! They usually have a way too large fuel line outside diameter and have that woven shiny stainless steel material on the outside. Also, the ferrules, nuts, banjo etc are often erroneously in steel and zinc or pacifated zinc plated. Dreadful ! Now to what can be achieved more closely to the original set up. I do like the' Frame Up' fuel lines with a finer diameter AND ferrules, nuts, and banjo correctly manufactured in brass. Further, I take the too shiny outside cover and spray an auto light grey undercoat spray on. Leave on for a few hours and then lightly use a fine steel wool to rub the paint back a little. They end up looking like the real deal ! I polish the brass end fittings although of course this is not really necessary. Hope this assists your quest. Rob Grantham TF3719("Aramis"),TF917("Athos"). |
Rob Grantham |
Attached is, what I believe to be, an original fuel line. It would be the line between the two fuel bowels. How I held on to it for 52 years is a mystery. It is very crispy. Jim B. |
JA Benjamin |
Interesting that with a fuel pump producing only 2.5 to 4 psi there is a need for any external wire winding or braiding at all. Is the braiding just bling for show? perhaps it's to prevent kinking? Jud |
J. K. Chapin |
Its just bling. Dave H |
Dave Hill |
Jim, The picture you have shown is not a Fuel Line but an original Oil feed line, block to Oil Gauge brass union fitting for TCs,TDs and TFs ! The wire 'bling' is to protect the flexible pipe from any scuff/abrasion in the engine bay area. Cheers Rob Grantham TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos"). |
Rob Grantham |
Thanks for the clarification Rob. Jim B. |
JA Benjamin |
I had one of those build at my local hydraulic shop using my brass fittings. They look very much like the front brake lines from a Triumph Spitfire. They are the same length. Unfortunately, the inside of the spitfire brake line is too small to fit the brass ends on.
I was able to use the spring from the spitfire with another hydraulic hose to get the correct look of the original. Yea, I know Doug at FTFU has ones that are correct, but I only spent 8 dollars to have one made. I did find some old hose in my spares that has a chevron pattern similar to what I am seeing in the shop manual. So was this braded or rubber? Also, any thoughts on what the band on the pump to carb hose was? |
Bruce Cunha |
These are what the original fuel lines looked like. I can find no suitable replacement for them today. They are very small diameter. I have a pump to carb one in my stash. |
Christopher Couper |
I imagine they were rubber covered braided cotton, rather than braided steel over rubber. Dave H |
Dave Hill |
Original hoses were zinc plated steel braided over cotton reinforced rubber. Same as the stainless braided modern hoses but duller! |
Chris at Octarine Services |
Ok, great to know. Smaller diameter? Dave H |
Dave Hill |
I have an original carb to carb fuel line and will take measurements. Working right now.... Definitely smaller in circumference than the repro's you get today which I think are 3/8". Originals are 1/4" maybe?
The line I had from the SU pump on the mounted on the tool box is perished. The one I have also has the tag like in the artist depiction in the earlier post. Unsure what it says. Rob, good tip on painting the fuel lines and steel wool to mute the shine of the stainless steel. I plan on doing that! Frank TF 1414 |
Frank Cronin |
This group is fantastic. This is the kind of information we need to really detail what was original. Frank. Looking forward to what you can document. Chris. If you find you original, bring it by and I will see if we can figure out a potential replacement. |
Bruce Cunha |
Here's what I have. Flex line 11 1/2 inches. Looks to be zinc coated? Flex line with brass connections 13 3/4" Diameter 1/4" Been on the car since we've had it in 1957. Factory? Text on band is half legible. ________ FLEX MADE IN UK ________ ST21 QUESTION? How can we get these reproduced with the correct lengths and diameter? Pics below and others to follow since you can only post one picture at a time. Frank TF1414 |
Frank Cronin |
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Frank Cronin |
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Frank Cronin |
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Frank Cronin |
Frank: We should get our two fuel lines together. Maybe they can have babies and we will get rich. :-) I think I talked to Doug Pelton about this years ago and he did not think his supplier could do them. I forgot the reason. One problem we have is the case ends are going to be the expensive part. Plust most people (outside of purists) will probably want stainless instead of zinc plated steel. That may have been some of the issues Doug had. |
Christopher Couper |
The brass end pieces to fit 1/4" is the difficult part. Acquiring the 1/4" lines, not so bad.... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WJ6FOY/?coliid=I131YSZXH3BLZI&colid=3RI6F8ON4FSCF&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it Mating two fuel lines.... Eye bleach!! :) Frank TF1414 |
Frank Cronin |
Here is the mate to Franks line. It measures 15 1/4" long. |
Christopher Couper |
The end picture. The outsides diameter of the pipe is only 5/16" wide so it's real small. |
Christopher Couper |
I am thinking that the ID might even be 1/8" and the OD of the hose 1/4". This would give an OD or the line at 5/16". Here is an interesting product that we could use to make up the line. This would cover the 1/4" OD rubber hose. We could then have them zinc plated before soldering. They look pretty close. https://www.wirecare.com/category/braided-sleeving/metal-shielding/brass-braid/mbb0-25brs-flexo-brass-1-4-brass-10-ft-cuts |
Christopher Couper |
Still not sure of the source of these fuel lines. https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/fu109.htm claims Smiths Petro-Flex lines were original on the MGA. Smiths acquired Petro-Flex in 1951. They were around in 1937 independently. But that does not jive with Franks label where the letters appear to be a ?TEFLEX |
Christopher Couper |
Nice find Chris. Now just finding the banjo / compression fittings for 1/8" ID? I have no clue where to look. Frank |
Frank Cronin |
"I have no clue where to look." I know where I can find a set of carb to carb ones. :-) This is going to be a bit of a problem. Especially the big end with the filter. Not sure of the thread sizes on the ends either. |
Christopher Couper |
British standard brass? Perhaps our UK friends on the forum would know? |
Frank Cronin |
Can you two do close up pictues of the ends? I would like to see how the tubing is seated against the hose and wire? Wonder if there is an internal pin that goes into the hose and an external sleave that the hose and wire got in?
Any thoughts on what other cars might have used these hoses? The oil line from the block to the firewall tubing is a smaller diameter braided stainless wire tube. I will check the OD/ID as I have one that I took the fittings off to make my replica of the original oil line. I could not get the pictures of the tubing that Chris posted to come up. I really like the 4 wire braiding on the original. Tha is a neet look. |
Bruce Cunha |
Brass thread is 26tpi for all sizes and 55degrees per Whitworth thread form. Dave H |
Dave Hill |
It's soldered together and I will take pictures and post later after work for a closer look. Frank |
Frank Cronin |
"Can you two do close up pictures of the ends?" There is one a few posts up. Don't think I can get closer without a macro lens. |
Christopher Couper |
Anyone have a damaged original fuel line? I would be willing to purchase any pieces of these hoses. If I can get the ends, I will look into having the fittings cast.
As for the hose. I think I found a solution. The original is a 4 wire together brade. The Moss line is a 4 wire together brade, but it is tight packed. I have a Moss hose in my spares. I am thinking it may be possible to remove every other strand and get the look of the original. I can then get a hose close to the original an put the wrap over it. I will let you know how it goes. |
Bruce Cunha |
Bruce, is this what you're looking for: Carb to carb line. I don't know if it's an original part but it was on my '53 when I bought it. Based on the skimpy records I have, if a replacement it would probably date to sometime in the early '70s. I can't remember if I replaced it with a Moss hose because it had a problem of just because I wanted the bling. It's been hanging on my wall for seven years so, if it would be of value to you, it's yours for any nominal price plus postage. Jud |
J. K. Chapin |
Jud: That looks like an original line. I would like to outbid Bruce for that. It would go well with my original pump to car line. :-) |
Christopher Couper |
Here's one end
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J. K. Chapin |
Here's the other end. Gee whiz, now you guys have me wondering if I have something I should really ask money for. Y'all decide and whatever is fair is a done deal. I'm in this for the fun of driving my TD and recapturing my youth, not for profit so be fair to yourselves too. Jud |
J. K. Chapin |
Bruce: "I think I found a solution. The original is a 4 wire together brade. The Moss line is a 4 wire together brade, but it is tight packed."
Most importantly the originals are very small diameter overall. About 5/16". Most newer hoses like the Moss one are around 1/2". Add to that the brading is finer and as you pointed out, more strands. So the entire look and feel is different on the originals. I also suspect the fuel flow might not be as good on the originals but these cars are pretty lean if you don't have a blower or have done much to mod them. |
Christopher Couper |
That looks like the other ones that have been posted Jud. I would say it is an original. If you are willing to part with it, I would love to have it. Please drop me an email at cunhab52 AT gmail dot com Chris. I think if I take out some of the strands on the Moss line, it will be able to be lenghtened and that will bring the diameter down. Like a Chinese finger trap. |
Bruce Cunha |
"Like a Chinese finger trap." This is how I think they work too. It can't hurt to try. Or buy that brass stuff I have listed above and have it zinc plated first. That looks to me to be heavier than the Moss one and won't be as shiny but you can use Robs technique to dull them. Note: I have the FTFU fuel lines and they are much better than the others but the ferrules are not correct and the line is still much wider than the originals. They are also crimped vs soldered. |
Christopher Couper |
Judd. Got the package today. That is a nice hose. Thanks, it will help my restoration a lot. |
Bruce Cunha |
This thread was discussed between 07/06/2019 and 16/06/2019
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