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MG TD TF 1500 - Original Lucas Group 27 Battery Size

Been through the archive in order to confirm the actual physical dimensions of the original Lucas Group 27 battery. George Butz is the only person to supply dimensions. He thinks they were 12.75" x 6.88" x 9.88" high. Does anyone have an original Lucas battery so that these dimensions can be confirmed? I don't wish to go over old ground in terms of the available modern equivalents. I'm just looking to confirm the original dimensions of the rubber cased Lucas wet cell. See pic. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

Reactivated thread.

Can anybody provide the answer to the above? I need to find an original rubber case that is the correct size. The guy who is about to rebuild one for me has a few cases available but I need to confirm the original size. (The term Group 27 doesn't mean anything to him & he's been manufacturing batteries for about 50 years), so he's asked that I provide him with the L x H x W that I require. TYIA. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter -

I searched the web for the original dimensions a few months ago and again this morning. Like you, I found nothing.

Here is some info that you probably already have. If not, perhaps it will help you track down a source with the original size of the battery -

The Lucas battery designation for our cars was gtw9a/2.

The 1954 Lucas Spares List shows that these cars also used the battery:
Morris Commercial 10 cwt "J" Van
MG TF midget and Magnette
Riley 1-1/2 liter
Wolseley "Four Forty-Four" and "Six Eighty"

For what it's worth, here are the dimensions for the AutoCraft "Gold" group 27F battery that I bought for my TF from Advance Auto Parts here in the US:
BCI Group Size: 27F
Height: 8 13/16 in
Length: 12 3/4 in
Width: 6 5/8 in

Don't know if they will help, the Lucas Tech Correspondence Course has some photos of details that may help you find a case at the battery rebuilder:
http://www.fromtheframeup.com/uploads/Lucas01_Lead_Acid_Batteries.pdf
> case on page 5
> installed on page 21
> battery caps on page 21

I am attaching images of Lucas battery ads to the next five posts. Perhaps they will help.

Lonnie
TF7211

>>>> This image shows the Lucas battery as installed in an MG


LM Cook

image - 1949 Lucas Battery Ad

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

image - 1952 Lucas Battery Ad

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

image - 1954 Lucas Battery Ad (#1)

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

image - 1954 Lucas Battery Ad (#2)

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

image - 1957 Lucas Battery Ad

Lonnie
TF7211


LM Cook

I think the closest that you will get is a Type 242. See lincon.co.uk then see Classic Batteries, 12V.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Thanks Lonnie. Some pics I'd not seen before & I will add them to my collection. Checked out Lincon Batteries Dave & the Classic 242 appears to be very similar to those in the ads. The dimensions given are 307L x 170W x either 205H or 175H. The pics will certainly help the manufacturer but I still need confirmation of the dimensions of a Group 27 & that a Group 27 (or the Classic 242) was the correct original battery size. Perhaps this is an American means of identifying or classifying a battery. If I lived in England Lincon would be a great supplier as they can make to order however they, like all manufacturers, don't send their products overseas. So the quest continues. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The original battery specn is in the WSM, but the code means nothing to me. The 242 is what is offered by Moss.
Dave H
Dave Hill

http://www.evdl.org/pages/bcigroup.html

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/content/product_info/auto_interstate_f.asp
http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/british.html





Here are other references for sizes, not sure what mine was above. There seems to be variation in size, perhaps depending on the case material, brand, etc. As early as 1972 when the TD came into the family, Group 27 was what was specified by all battery manufactures in the US.

The factory parts spec book lists Battery 401155QF, GTW.9A, and Battery (Dry Charged) 401856Q, GTZ.9A/1 "Export CPTS. Cars only"
No dimensions given however
George Butz

Thanks George. The BCI & the Antique Auto Battery charts show the size of the various Group 27 batteries available. I think I now have enough info to have a rubber cased battery rebuilt using the dimensions of the Lincon Classic & the US Group 27, which are pretty close. I have a manufacturer in Melbourne but will first try & find someone here in Sydney to supply one. Thanks again Lonnie, Dave & George. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Does anyone have any Lucas battery caps for sale? The US supplier of the new Lucas battery won't just sell the caps. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Ebay item #390501283931
Here are two porcelean (?) caps from your side of the planet ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/D102-TWO-OLD-PORCELAIN-BATTERY-PLUGS-LUCAS-ENGLAND-/390501283931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5aebb0b85b

This company claims to have correct battery caps on their reproduction batteries. Don't know if you can purchase the caps without the battery.
http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/batteries.html

This seller says ... "Here we have a new old stock Lucas battery cap with it's original hose for a real purist." The picture is confusing. Maybe it's for a trunk-mounted battery and battery vent.
http://www.britishcarpartsco.com/CoolStuff/Cool-Stuff.html

If you can beg, borrow, buy, or steal one original Lucas battery cap, then a craftsperson could make a mold and cast resin copies.

Or the high tech method would be to 3-D scan the cap and create reproductions on a 3-D printer. My next door neighbor's son is in the 3-D printer industry. He says that it would be relatively easy for the right person. (cost?)

I'm sure that other people would want reproduction Lucas caps if you can create them.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Thanks Lonnie. I've asked a question of the seller of the porcelain caps re history, type of vehicle etc. I'll post his reply. Pretty sure Antique Battery won't sell the caps. I've contacted them previously & it was no go. If I had an original I could probably cast the caps. Not sure if they were yellow or grey originally so would also need to find a suitable coloured medium for casting. The mold would probably have to be a flexible silicon of some sort. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Reactivated thread. I've had a wanted ad running in Gumtree here for the past 16 months seeking an original Lucas rubber cased battery suitable to rebuild. Had absolutely no luck. I've just been given a plastic cased sealed ROCKET 12 V battery, made in Korea by the Global & Yuasa Battery Manufacturing Company, that is the correct size L x W X H & is a recent trade-in. The terminals are even in the correct place. This is a calcium battery (CCA 735). Now inquiring as to whether there is a manufacturer in Oz, apart from Ariel in Melbourne, who can produce a Lucas replica using this case. Shipping to & from Melbourne is a big issue. I think I can deal with the case aesthetics but the key is finding someone to reproduce the original top. I would be looking to rebuild with the original lead-antimony alloy plates as the newer calcium alloys apparently require a higher charging voltage (14.5 volts) & so may not be suitable in the T Type, unless the output of the genny is such that the regulator can be adjusted to handle the required 14.5 volts. Also no joy with the original Lucas caps as he never got back to me. We battle on. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 16/10/2014 and 04/07/2016

MG TD TF 1500 index

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