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MG TD TF 1500 Original SU AUC #'s for TD's & TF's BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - Original SU AUC #'s for TD's & TF's
| Can anybody shed any light? Burlen lists these as follows:
TD 50/53 AUC 549 H2 TDC 50/53 AUC 578 H4 TF 53/54 AUC 728 H4 TF 1500 53/54 AUC 728 H4 However it seems these bear no relation at all to the original AUC #'s. I'd like to be sure that the carbies that I finally do decide to refurbish and install are original and that any advice sought by and given to members of TTORC on the subject is accurate. The pair on the car at present I'm suspicious of. These were exchanged for a pair of 1 1/2"'s back in 1972 when I decided that the car would be completely original, however I knew less then than I do now on the subject, which isn't much. I have restored a "pair" using the appropriate repair kits and did a nice job of centering the jets, replacing all the glands and washers and polishing the bodies, being careful to ensure heat generated by friction was kept at an absolute minimum and also ensuring that they produced the appropriate clunk when the piston was dropped. I know this subject has been discussed on this forum before but searches in the archives reveal either nothing or I'm totally swamped. I have access to a quantity of complete carbies (about 26). These are 1 1/8", 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" and one very pretty 1 3/4", all in need of restoration, with a wide variety of AUC #'s. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Opinions are fine but substantiated facts quoting source material are much preferred. I'll catalogue the body numbers on my next visit but I'd like to be armed with real information beforehand, so as to assist the elderly widowed owner. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Peter, I can't confirm for the TF, but for the TD and TDC, these numbers correspond to the ones given in the TD service parts list. It is for a pair of carbs. For each carb, it is the same number with either an "F" (front) or"R" (rear) suffix. The AUC number on the body corresponds only that part. John |
| J Scragg |
| Hi Peter, I have some numbers for the carb bodies: 1. 3478 for early TD and TC 2. 3229 for later TD 3. 4031 for TD/C I do not have the numbers handy for TF's. Note that the above all have ONLY two holes on the flange where the air cleaner manifold attaches. Cheers, Hugh |
| H.D. Pite |
| Please educate me. What does "AUC" mean? Thanks. Jud |
| J K Chapin |
| Not a clue Jud, but if you have a look at the carbies on your car you'll see those letters and a set of numbers cast into the body. John I understand that originally they were a series of four numbers and at some point over the years these numbers were "rationalised' to conform to some new parts numbering system. They are shown in the Burlen Reference System in 1997, which is where I got them from. These new numbers aren't helpful in identifying carbies found at swap meets. Hugh that is exactly what I'm looking for. Many thanks. The note about the two hole attachment is a quick indicator as to what may be an original carby. Apparently to take this subject a little further there were originally two types, a heavy and a light. This relates to the type of material that was used in the casting. The heavies however did tend to go out of round and can cost a motza for someone like Burlen or Faber Midel to restore, IF they could be persuaded to touch them. $800 per body is the starting point, then with the cleaning, kits etc. it could cost $2,000 per pair to restore. On the other hand if a set of heavies with the numbers quoted by Hugh can be found, with NO distortion, they are worth buying. I assume the only way to tell the difference is to compare the weight of a heavy and a light as the difference is appreciable and can be easily determined by hand. Hopefully someone with TF knowledge will add to this list of original information. I have a pic that I kept in my gallery of TD owner Gordon Lawson quite chuffed at finally acquiring a pair of original 1 1/2" TDC carbies. Note the single holes that Hugh was referring to. Cheers
Peter TD 5801  |
| P Hehir |
| TF and TF1500s (1 and 1/2") carby bodies have 6020 cast on. MGAs also have this number I suspect, however the choke linkages are very different when compared to TFs. Cheers. Rob Grantham TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos"). |
| Rob Grantham |
| You are correct John. The AUC 549 refers to the whole carby assembly. The AUC 3478, with a suffix for the TD, refers to the carby body itself. Each successive suffix refers to a minor change in the design.
Just had some great info offline suggesting that a test for the heavies, is to hold them up to the sunlight, ensuring that the butterflies are not being held open by the screw adjusters. If you can see daylight, or even a slight crescent of light, leave them be, as repair these days is almost impossible. Yet another reason for not buying parts unseen, especially this important component in terms of tuning. Caveat emptor. The TC apparently carries the same number and indeed it may go back even further, however these bodies have a boss missing for the TD choke mechanism. These wont work on the TD either. The original heavy TD body in perfect working order, that is without ovality, is something of a rare spare here, but may be more freely available in the States. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Peter,
I now better understand your request, Your interest is finding the original "heavy" carb bodies. When I first bought my TD in 1993, I had nothing but trouble getting the engine to run smoothly. At that time I had to make frequent business visits to Santa Clara California, as luck would have it, nearby was Mike O'Connor's shop. (Mike was one of the original mg specialist known for his clutch rod modification.) After explaining my problem Mike told me that I must have the original (heavy) carb bodies, he told me the best thing to do is scrap them because the metal used was recycled from WW2 aircraft. They had problems with deformation on the rear flange, oval holes at the butterfly (as you mentioned) and stripping of the thread of the float hold up bolt. On returning home I checked the bodies and sure enough I had all these problems. Changing the bodies for the later version fixed these problems. I have attached two pictures showing the two bodies, the one on the right shows the heavy style. Both are numbered 3478, The heavy has a suffix "B" the other has an "L" John   |
| J Scragg |
| A really helpful reply John, especially the 2 pics. Your tuning problems exemplify the issues with the heavies, although a perfect pair will perform just as well as the aluminium versions, but requiring care when installing them to prevent distortion. I was particularly interested in your inclusion of the suffix. The B referring to the heavy and the L to the light. Somewhere in between these two letters was the last of the heavies and the 1st of the aluminium types. Do you mind if I use your two pics to illustrate a piece for the TTORC magazine on these original carbs? Many of the members of TTORC can assemble a T Type but aren't able or willing to access forums due to a deep suspicion of computers. They or their wives can handle emails with pics of their great grand-kids but that's about it. Cheers
Peter TD 580 |
| P Hehir |
| Quick, John - copyright those photos so nobody steals them! Tom Lange MGT Repair |
| t lange |
| Peter, No problem with me for you to forward the pictures. I have one comment on these, If you look at the underside of the heavy body you will see a brass insert in the float bolt hole, this was my failed attempt to fix the stripped thread. Tom, I don't mind if they are copied, they will be used for our cause. John |
| J Scragg |
| To a limited audience! |
| P G Gilvarry |
| Thankyou John for your comments on the 3478B bodies. I have a pair of these on my Y Tourer XPAG engine, and although lean needles have been inserted and adjusted as lean as possible, the engine is still running rich. I have a pair of 3478L on the XPAW engine in my under restoration TD. Looks like I will change them over and see if it is the bodies that are causing the Y engine to run rich. Something to do whilst not socialising. cheers Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Thank you John, Hugh, Rob and Stuart. Your support and the positive spirit of your posts are very much appreciated. Stuart and Hugh the article will appear in the June issue. John I'll send you a copy of the June Newsletter also. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| I am overhauling a pair of TF carbs for a friend. Both have AUC6020 cast in but the front one is engraved 6030 below the cast in number,6030 is not listed by Burlen. Any ideas why it was done? Busy making tiny bushes to take out slop in choke linkage, it worked but did not look nice and as Stuart said,something to do while in lockdown. Ray TF 2884 |
| Ray Lee |
| Could it be to differentiate between the front and rear carby Ray? Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| Peter,
I am looking forward to reading your newsletter, thanks for your offer. is it on line or will you post it? Ray, I have several different bodies, some have, as you mentioned, a second number hand etched near the cast number. I am not sure but my theory is, the cast number is the blank casting, the etched number is after configuration. This means after drilling and tapping the hole for the choke lever pivot bolt, if it is on the left it has one number, if on the right another. For other cars the same can apply for the vacuum advance take off. In this case there are four options, left, right, before or after butterfly. John |
| J Scragg |
| Makes sense, the rear carb also has an engraved number looks like 6010. I checked on my own TF and found they are different to the ones I am working on. The numbers are cast into the lower web and not the top as on my friends carbs but still 6020 bodies. Ray |
| Ray Lee |
| John I'll email you a copy. We aren't on the web yet as were only recently formed. There are many M.G. Clubs all over the world and the vast majority are concerned primarily with going on runs, gymkhanas, hill climbs or racing. The annual fees can be quite steep as well, often over 3 figures. Some also produce magazines for their members. M.G. TTORC has but one aim and that is to encourage member hosted hands on restoration based Tech Days where both knowledge and skill is freely exchanged. These events will spawn the technical articles that appear in each edition. We now have 116 members all over Australia and a dozen or so in Nth America. The numbers are steadily climbing.
Obviously insurance is essential to protect members at these events and is a requirement when affiliating with organisations like Motorsport Australia. The tiny annual fee of $13 barely covers this. In this vast country many of our members are scattered all over the continent and will never meet, but will be kept informed via the Newsletter. As you know the T Type and pre war demographic is advanced in age. I've spoken to many as part of the joining process and there are very few under the age of 75. This group can and does display an awesome knowledge of pre 1955 M.G.'s, but also shows an aversion to computer use beyond emails, and most will never access a forum. The TTORC Newsletter, just like the Sacred Octagon, is produced for the benefit of its members. If you're interested I'll send you a copy of our constitution along with the June edition. Thanks again for the info those who've contributed to this thread have provided. It will assist many in our group and also those who have and will read this thread well into the future. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| John, you are correct in your comment re the additional numbers engraved into the TF 6020 car bodies. The engraved numbers on TF bodies can be 6030 and 6031. As you indicated, these numbers refer to the specific variations between the carbs allocated to TFs compared to other vehicles that also use the 6020 bodies.
Like virtually all 'Threads' that arise on the bbs td tf, there are always interested parties that want to enquire and learn from others. This is what makes this Forum such a well respected avenue. Cheers Rob Grantham TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos"). |
| Rob Grantham |
| Additionally,the TF rear bowl is 3496 number whilst the lid is a 1161.
The front bowl is numbered 3495 and the lid is numbered 1160. Many cars by this stage of history have had many parts on their carbs. changed over ! The original TC (1 and 1/4") carbs were made out of the (heavy) 'muck metal'. Easily distorted. Many owners have diced these and fitted the later, better alloy carbs. I seem to remember Wolseley 4/44s had the nice carb. Of course, you need to find two(2). To Peter H., thank you for raising the issue of T type carb numbers. I have had many personal emails requesting information relating, in my case particularly, to the TF set up. Cheers Rob Grantham TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos"). |
| Rob Grantham |
| Thanks Rob. Acting on the advice of an SU guru here in Sydney who restores MG carbies as a sideline, I've requested a couple of copies of a SU Carburetter booklet titled 'Spare Parts and Specifications Catalogue' from England, one of which I'll send to you. These are freely available, just for the cost of the postage. While searching through my library here I found that I already had a copy, but I've no idea where or how I obtained it. It does shed some light but also adds to the mystery.
The only mention of the carby body is on pages 51, 52 and 53. AUC 3478 is mentioned there and this is correct for the MG TC and also for the early MG TD. However AUC 3229 which was apparently fitted to the later TD; and AUC 4031 which was fitted, (being the larger H4), to the TD/C, are nowhere to be seen. None of these bodies are mentioned on these pages or anywhere else in the catalogue that I could find. I’ve been unable to confirm these numbers from Faber Midel here in Sydney and so I can’t advise the members of the M.G. T Type Owners & Restorers Club here in Australia, whether the numbers on the carby bodies fitted to their cars, actually indicate original bodies. I hasten to add that I have NO reason to believe that the info provided by those on this thread isn't sound. I've sought clarification from Steven Curtis at Burlen in England. Watch this space. Cheers Peter TD 5801 |
| P Hehir |
| I've just received the following information by email from Burlen in England in relation to my query on the TC/TD body.
Dear Mr Hehir, The information in the catalogue lists the available bodies that we manufacture. There were several different bodies originally and the numbers can only be located on the original specification sheets. I have taken a look at the original spec sheets and this is what I have found listed as this is the only place that original build information will be listed for the carburetter specifications. TC H2 Carb spec AUC 429 = body number 3478 TD H2 Carb spec AUC 549 = body number 3478 I cannot see any notes on changes to the body used to suggest either AUC 3229 & AUC 4031 were fitted. Kind regards, Steven Curtis Customer Services Supervisor Burlen Limited |
| P Hehir |
This thread was discussed between 27/03/2020 and 31/03/2020
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