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MG TD TF 1500 - Paint formulas

Ya I know this has been beaten to death (I've been through the archives) but I'd like a formula for the Autumn Red (Are you listening Bud?) And the Clipper Blue (Tom M?) Trying to make up my mind on what color to paint this thing, Gonna have a pint of each mixed up and spray the old fenders. The old paint codes while valid are useless to mix any new paints. All imput will be appreciated.

I'll be using Senoir Martin (spanish company.. little joke) but they can cross a modern mix.
LaVerne Downey

LaVerne, http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm has the Martin Senour 20216 code for Autumn Red. Must admit that It's been 15 years since I got the paint. The M-S formula is (was):
9801 Black 62.1 3.9
9806 D. Orange 372.0 23.3
9835 Mix Drier 552.0 34.5
9816 T. Maroon 3656.0 228.5

The last set of numbers is for a half pint.

Sherwin-Williams also called it RD6. BTW, Acme is another of the S/W paints, as is M-S.

Bud
Bud Krueger

LaVerne;
I found some good color under the undercoating on
the front fenders of 54TF HDC36/809. A Sherwin Williams store scanned it to their color "35168"
95-96 Mitsubishi code R54 "Maple Red". I am in the small sample mode, but this is a 99% match to the paint I found. It is a Dark Red much darker than
the PPG 71993 that the car had been repainted by PO.
Since this same color was under several brackets I
belive it the orignal color. Similar to the Moss engine paint. Autum Red I am told was not normal on TF's,but since my car was not a North American model
I think this is probably as close as I can get to Autum Red.
Hope this helps

Doug
TF0809
DOUG BULTHAUS

Laverne, Martin Senour is the stuff they mix at Napa, right? (Your brother-in-law?). Believe it or not the Gunnisson Napa store does it. How has your experience been with the Napa process?
Ed Haskell

http://www.autocolorlibrary.com/
If you know the make and year of the car, enter it and it pulls up the master chip swatches. Colors are pretty acurate on my monitor. Seems to be running really slow at the moment, but I have used in the past.
George Butz

Laverne, I did alot of research for Autumn Red not so long ago myself. I found out there are many shades called Autumn Red. Little T still had some really good areas of paint that had survived beneath undercoating but I didnt have the foresight to have it matched before nor did the bodyshop before they had the parts chemically stripped. I used a sample from soume old touch up paint Moss Motors use to sell and I did paint it on the spots before stripping and it was a pretty good match so that is what we matched the new paint to. Its hard to really tell on the computer but here is what we came up with.

Regards,
Rich


Richard Taylor

Thanks for all the help guys. Bud I'll see if the formulas are still applicable...enamel?

Doug also appreciate your input.

Yes Ed it's the brother inlaw deal. I think the Martin Senour name is going away as all the thinner cans are now Acme. I think they make a product as good as anybody else. One thing I don't like now is the high end base/clear system has to be mixed in Denver. Thats what I used on the B and I really liked it. I used their "Tech" base/clear system on the TF and it was ok but not the same as the B. Main thing Ed is how often they are mixing stuff. If the primmer has been sitting on the shelf forever you don't want it. Have em send you a new can from the Denver warehouse. Same goes for the paint. You don't want em mixing two year old yellow in your formula.

Thanks George I think I have that saved in my favorite pages.

Still need some feedback on the clipper blue...Tom?
LaVerne Downey

LaVerne, Clipper Blue was also a color for Austins, I went to thelocal shop and they just looked it up. The old numbers are long gone but there are folks that mix this stuff around. Problem is to find them.
Tom Maine

LaVerne, the formula is for the base coat of the base coat/clear coat system. At the time I owned a NAPA store and had the Martin Senour line. I still have some of the formulae. They also had Autumn Red in their Synthol line (90N-20216):
9038 Orange 80.0
9000 Drier 260.0
9020 T. Maroon 3448.0

Don't know if they're still in Cleveland, but the folks at Sherwin Williams were great at researching colors and had a good archivist.
Bud Krueger

I also attempted to match the Autumn Red which was the factory color on my 55 TF1500 #9622. The closest I could find was a standard MGB red named Damask Red. I tried to attach a picture of the color but the file size was to large. Recommed checking the MGB web sites for more details.
Tim Moylan

Thanks to all again. Stuff is probably made in China now Bud.

The Damask is close as Gordon L can attest and Richard thats a nice example. The remments of red left on the TF were a bit darker even than what I see on your photo but yet not a maroon.

The store did a very good job of tracking down the formula for the Healey blue when I was thinking of going that way but apparently pre sixties is a no go.
I'll give them your formulas Bud and we'll see what they can do.
Hell I might wind up painting it pink.
LaVerne Downey

Bud,
What is your opionion of the Napa line having sold it? Like Laverne says, you gotta wonder how long it's been sitting on that shelf, especially in a small town like Gunnison, CO? Do these guys really know how to mix it? Mostly they sell batteries to ranchers around here.
Ed
Ed Haskell

I have a suggestion Bud. In as much a we really don't have a true definitive color match and we never will. Perhaps you might put a section on your TTalk with submitted color shots but only if the owner can provide a modern code or formula that we can take to the bank for mixing. Would certainly save the same old question and we would have a central location to obtain the desired info and with the color shots ( might get 5 different variations on the same color .. who knows) the prospective painter could get a fix on what they are after.
LaVerne Downey

Ed, I closed the NAPA store in 1965. I have no idea of what has transpired with Martin Senour since then. Their quality was excellent, but the customer was at the mercy of the person operating the mixer.

LaVerne, your idea is great. Unfortunately, it's technically a very complex topic. My technical career was spent in the world of light measurements. Some 30 years of that was in standards at Polaroid. Color is a very complex subject. This is magnified when the world of computer imaging gets into the act. The only way that you could create such a useable grouping would be if a color chart (e.g., gunson/Munsell/Kodak) were captured in the image with the car.

I can picture Dave Braun nodding his head.

Sorry, Bud.
Bud Krueger

...and I... just got a new iMac and the colour of my images is quite different then on my old one, and the screen i use at work....
gblawson(gordon)

I can certainly understand teh variations from camera to moniter to light conditions. Just thought it might give us a jumping off point, Hell I can't even get a true representation of the test colors I shot today.
The old mix formulas you provided Bud are no longer useable. I had the mix up the Mitsabisi color and some Iris Blue (not to far off from the clipper). The computer formula mixed a gray for the Iris blue so he remixed it using the chip chart and it's exactly as I remember my old Sprite. Like I said not truely accurate but here they are.


LaVerne Downey

Tim

Use your "Paint" program under accessories if you are running Microsoft on your computer.

Open paint. Go to open and find your picture. Then look for resize. In older windows programs this may be under a different tab. Think is is called skew.

Resize the picture about 50% and save it. Should then be able to download.
Bruce E Cunha

Bruce,
Thanks for the lesson on resizing. I have attached a picture of my TF in Damask Red (Autumn Red).
Might help decisions on color selection.


Tim Moylan

LaVerne

I have been painting some of the MG's on my valve cover and other engine dress up items. The Hirsch MG engine maroon red is really close to my body color.

Regards,
Rich
Richard Taylor

The formulas I tracked down were different for Damask and Autumn....
gblawson(gordon)

I see so few in Clipper Blue that I like to put in a good word for the color. I took a small paint chip to local aukto paint shop and they color matched and mixed for me. Don't have the formula.
Robert Agar

Clipper blue on a '53 TD


Robert Agar

See the dark red E type in the backround of Robert's clipper blue TD?
Let's see, Jaguar - British Leyland,
MG - British Leyland. Hummmm.
Perhaps the Jag color code is the same as Autumn Red or pretty darn close.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

hmmm...don't think that will work....


gblawson(gordon)

Tim Moylan, did you have your car in the show in Safety Harbor, Fl. last October?
Richard Olson 2

I like it! (not!) Good old Photoshop, eh? Too much time on your hands Laverne? Come on over and help me then!
Ed Haskell

Ok...your GT and Jag in background? And notice the hub caps are polished in second photo...photoshop does re-chroming too? -Joe
Joe Walck

I don't have phot shop Ed. Thats Gordons handy work. I've got plenty to do, come on by I've got sandpaper and beer.


Hey Gordon, Do one with the bonnet, fenders and cowel red and the tub and side panels cream. How about one with the clipper in place of the cream and a dark blue in place of the red. One more please and I can get this tu tone our of my system...clipper blue on the fender bonnet stuff and a light gray on the tub. It would go a long way to helping me make up my mind.
Thanks
LaVerne Downey

Funny. when I was a kid my favorite marble was that colour blue with a swirl just about that red - like the giant red spot on Jupiter! I still sort of like it, though it's a bit eccentric, who me?
Friend did a TF1500 in pearl white with very fine metallic dark red-to-maroon fenders, had the original perfect red interior. Guy bought it before it was finished last fall and decided to put a tan interior in it! I never got to see it not under fluorescent lights, but it looked like it was going to work except the interior.

FRM
Fletcher R Millmore

LaVerne

I researched and sent several codes for Autumn Red to my painter with little results from his paint supplier. So as I said before we matched to a color called Autumn Red. Is it an exact match to the color we matched it to? NOPE! But, if and when somebody ask me the color of my car I will say Autumn Red:)

Regards,
Rich
Richard Taylor

Reds are extremely difficult to match.
If you put two autumn red cars next to each other you will see a variation. Even to the point of an inconsistent mix with thinners and reducers can cause the color to be a shade off.
Reds are tough but they sure are purdy.

Dan H.
D.E. Hanson

Thanks for all the help everyone. The reds a close match to what I remember when I stripped the TF. The blue is actually Iris Blue ( early 60's MG color) as we couldn't get a clipper formula for todays paint. Its a shade darker than the Clipper but I do like it. I have a friend that says you have one green and one already red so I need to go blue. I'm still undecided and would like to see Gordon work some photo shop magic so I can get the tutone out of my system. Wife says if I do'nt make up my mind pretty soon shes gonna do it for me. She is the one who decided on the green/biscuit combo on the TF when I was thinking maybe black/red.
LaVerne Downey

Personally I don't think it's the paint that makes the car. It's all the little details - badges, fog lights, shiny chrome, steering wheels, nice interior, etc. Go with red and jazz it up like the TF. My opinion only.
Ed Haskell

Hi Bud:
In your career in color did you ever hear of the following?

I was at a print show and met a fellow who had spent his life in the paint/printing ink business. He said that old English paints were impossible to match because of the pigment grinding process they used. They ground to a maximum micron size and left it at that. The rest of the world (US at least) grind to a maximum micron size and then vacuum off whatever is smaller. The result was that the English colors were slightly dirty. Hence when you looked at English Racing Green or any of the reds in bright sunlight you saw a bit of brown.

I know nothing of this subject and only repeat what he said to me . . . coments anyone?

Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

John, I can't say as how I ever heard of that. The craziest thing car-color-wise is found in some ultra-modern paints that have the property of exhibiting a doppler shift so as to reflect a different color whether coming or going relative to the observer.
Bud Krueger

John's comments sound very plausible to me. The MG/Autumn red (same colour during TF production IMHO)had a bit of the brown in it. I have attached a picture of an unrestored TF I took about 10 years ago. This remarkable car was still in its factory paint and upholstery.

Cheers,
Matthew.


Matthew Magilton

This thread was discussed between 22/02/2010 and 27/02/2010

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