MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Pedal Box Bottom Access Hole

Classic T-car issue -- a simple project leads to another, leads to another, etc. In my intent to install the new front crank seal has me attacking the pedal box. Removing the clutch linkage from the sump reminded me that my clutch rod is bent and needs to be replaced. Now is the time to do it. I've had a new one on the shelf for a number of years. Uh-oh! Discovered that the DPO put the clevis pin that holds the clutch rod to the clutch pedal shaft so that the cotter pin is on the inside of the pedal box. It can not be removed from the outside. Best bet is to go at it from below as one might do with a late pedal box that has a hole on the bottom ahead of the pedal stop. (Lazarus originally had a cable-operated clutch) The image below is from 'the53' and shows the bottom hole in the later pedal box. I intend to cut such a hole into Lazarus' pedal box. Can anyone tell me the diameter of that hole? Please? Thanks. Bud


Bud Krueger

Before you ask - yes I did peruse the archives, about 50 of them. The size of this hole had been mentioned in the past, but I couldn't find it. Yes, there is a lot of slop in the brake pedal, so I'll probably do a full pedal shaft redo. (It was easy on the53, tub off). Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud,
On my 50 TD there is not enough room between the pedal box cover and the clutch pedal linkage for the cotter pin end of the clevis pin. The cotter is on the inside and can be removed with a needle nose pliers and a few select four letter words.
Really not so bad as I've had to do it a few times. I rotate the pin to gain line of sight with the open ends. Then straighten them out enough to start the push thru. Then rotate the pin 180 and stick an awl in the eye of the pin and lever it out. Assembly is reverse.
Let me know if you need any extra four letter words.
Mort
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Hi Bud,

I raised this issue 17th May 2006 under the heading
'TD-TF Pedal Box variants'. The details from Mark B, Austin TX was hole 1 7/8th" diam.,front edge of hole 1 7/8th" from the front of the bottom panel, centered 5/8th" from either side.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Mort: I think you have it right. That's what I recall doing mine on several TDs. Not fun or easy, but do-able with patience and beer!
Brian W.
ZBMan

Thank you, John. I'll be emulating that very shortly. Mort, as a former USMC DI I'm quite well versed in just about all of those choice words. However, there's not a one of them could guide my needle nose to that pin. The above image shows that there is sufficient room for the cotter end of the clevis pin. What was your angle of attack to get access to the cotter pin? I could not find an approach. Must admit that I did not remove the master cylinder linkage. Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud,
If you can grab the end of the clevis and rotate it that is a major part of this process. I came at the pin from about 10 o'clock. Getting hold of one tip by use of whatever works is next. Use a pliers, finger tip, homemade tool, etc. I've got some bent(angled) nose pliers I can send you if you need them. Then rotate to get at the other pin. Then rotate the pin till you can get an awl into the eye.
By the way the last time I did this job I bushed the clevis pin hole in the clutch rod and one side of the clutch pedal fork. I did one side because I didn't want to take the whole thing apart and that is all I could reach. It's been working fine for over a year now.
I did not touch the master cylinder linkage.
Good luck,
Mort


Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Of course you can always pull the tranny cover and take the floorboard out. That gives you a lot more room and is a lot easier. George
George Butz

I don't know Bud, I've done several body off chassis restorations that started out this way. Just wait until you see that shiney new part in there, that changes everything...
-David
D. Sander

Transmission cover is off. Floorboard is out. I am going to do the whole pedal shaft thing. Not sure that I want to r/r the front fender. I may just do some sheet metal trimming for clear access to the end of the shaft. Now to hunt for my notes about the generic part numbers of the bushings. I think I'll make the hole in the bottom of the box the same size as the m/c filler access hole in the footwell. That way I know that I can get a rubber plug for it. Bud
Bud Krueger

Front fender removal is just a couple more bolts at this point, don't cut the fender then regret it every time you see it. I don't know, but you could probably unbolt it from the tub, frame and the running board and swing it up enough to get to the pedal shaft.
The pedal shaft is really easy to get at if you remove the tub first, just say'n...
-David.
D. Sander

HHuumm,,, from a front crank seal,,, migrating to the pedal box,,, to removing the fender for better access to the end of the shaft,, then realizing how easy the shaft can be accessed with the tub removed,,,,,,,
I find it amazing to hear just how much noise a can of worms can make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

And when you are all done don't forget to make a paper gasket for the pedal box cover.



Chris Couper

Chris,

I don't want to be picky, but I thought the original gasket was a 'cork' one, which also gives clearance for a lever that can get very close to the side cover, at least on RHD cars.

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

I already have a rubber one. I can not bring myself to butcher Lazarus. I'll remove the member. Thank goodness I still have three months before the Texas trip.
Those worms sure can be slippery. Should've learned about pedal boxes at this stage. Bud


Bud Krueger

John: Could be cork or paper. Its definitely heavy whatever its made of. The picture looks more like heavy paper/card to me but I could be convinced its a very fine cork too.
Chris Couper

Hi Chris,

I thought I'd better look again in the TF Service Parts List, and as my memory told me, the gasket was described as cork. I don't know the thickness, and whether it's the same for a TD. I made my own and used quite a thick piece in order to get clearance for the lever, which had been rubbing on the metal cover.

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

My car did not come with a gasket so I never even considered it. Next time I'm in there I will try to turn the clevis around for easy access to the cotter pin. Then I will add whatever gasket is appropriate.
I learn something new from this BBS all the time.
Thank you all.
Mort

BTW... When I first got the car I removed the pedal shaft and re-bushed but I do not recall having to remove the fender???
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Thanks John: I changed the material from fiber to cork on the TD bolts page.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_bolts.htm
Chris Couper

Woke up thinking about the pedal box/fender issue. My thoughts are saying that, since I have access to the grease fitting on the outside of the shaft, I should have access to the circlip. If the internal bushings can be driven out from the inside of the box toward the frame I should be able to drive them through the shaft hole in the box. I would then, hopefully, drive the new bushings in from the box end toward the outside of the frame. So, two things to check out this morning (if the garage door isn't iced shut from last night's storm), can I get an inch of space by the grease fitting and is there room enough to drive bushings in from the inside with the gearbox in place? But first I have to get that clutch rod clevis pin out of there. Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks Chris,

It's nice to have made a small contribution to your excellent site.

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Pretty sure I found remnants of a cork gasket when I did this years ago, but I cut one from 1/4" Nitrile NBR Buna Rubber as a replacement.
David Sheward "IZZY" TF 7427

We dun't need no stinking gasket!!


MG LaVerne

You can do it Bud.
Mort 50 TD (Mobius)

Bud, if you decide to make an access hole in the bottom of the pedal box, planning to use a M/C rubber plug is a good idea. Just make sure that the bottoms of the pedal levers clear the rubber flanges of the plug when it is installed.
Jim Merz

Wow, what a day!! The answer to my first question, the one about access to the grease fitting on the outside of the shaft, is - plenty of room. See the attached image. More later. Second issue about installing bushings from inside of the box - should not be a problem.
Spent many hours an my back under the car trying to get the clevis pin undone from the clutch rod. No way, Jose'. Ended up using my blessed Dremel tool to grind off the flange of the pin. I'd love to get my hands on the DPO that last put the pedal box together (would have been at least 40 years ago at the Volvo conversion). It bugged me to have to remove the master cylinder to gain some of this access. Now I discovered something that I didn't realize before - apparently the clutch rod gets installed through the master cylinder hole at the back of the pedal box. It doesn't fit through the front of the box.

Now, the surprise of the day - turns out that the grease fitting was doubling as a circlip. The pedal shaft was free to shift from side to side until the grease fitting contacted the frame. Look at the image below. See any sign of a circlip?


Bud Krueger

Be sure to think about adding some lubrication grooves to your new shaft before installing.

See article

http://www.ttalk.info/PedalShaftDelk.htm
DLD

No question about that. Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud, in a recent thread on another MG bbs someone is offering a pretty spiffy looking brake/clutch pedal shaft that might be of interest to you. Is it polite for me to add the link to that site to a message on this one?

Jud
J K Chapin

Or, send it me at the above email address. Bud
Bud Krueger

Actually Bud I have been able to thread the clutch rod through the side hole and not have to remove the master cylinder but my tub is off, no floor boards. Also found I had to do some bending on the clutch rod at the clevis end to get the rod running parallel and not bind up on the clevis pin. Worth double checking the fit....
Bob
R Brown

You're right on that one, Bob. Did that as one of today's first jobs.

Today was one for agreeing with the folks that call the pedal box the worst project undertaken. I was spoiled by how easy it was when I did it on the53 with the tub removed. Among things removed today was the gas pedal linkage to be able to get my head closer to the monster. I was able to remove the clutch pedal clamp bolt and the brake pedal spring along with drilling a 1 3/8" hole in the bottom of the box. Then all he%% broke loose. It appears that the clutch pedal is frozen to the pedal shaft. I've drowned it in Kroil in hopes that it'll come loose on Monday, after these next two snowstorms do their thing. Jeff Delk was right as could be in predicting it - http://www.ttalk.info/PedalShaftDelk.htm Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud, you've got mail.

Jud
J K Chapin

My bad, I thought he said he had that shaft for the TD/TF as well as for the TC.
Jud
J K Chapin

Looks as if what I need to find is a gadget similar to the pickle fork that is used to undo tie rod ends. It needs to be thin enough to get between the clutch pedal and the distance washer adjacent to the brake pedal. I found an image that I took of the pedal/key/washer orientation from 'the53'. Anybody know where I can find a thin pickle fork with a 3/4" slot?


Bud Krueger

Bingo!!! My piece of steel meant to emulate a pickle fork wasn't strong enough. It bent too easily without nudging the pedals. As I was looking around the garage my eyes fell upon the real thing - the pickle fork used to break tie rod ends free. A quick measurement of the opening saw a gap of just about 3/4". A few minutes with that blessed Dremel tool made the gap slightly greater than 3/4". The gap was long enough to fit over the metal piece on the back, top of the pedal box. The fork slipped between the clutch pedal and the spacer. A couple of healthy whacks with a 3# hammer and it worked. There was the woodruff key. A bit more maneuvering and the parts were in my hand. Bud


Bud Krueger

I did my pedals many many years ago when I could bend.

But there's no doubt in my mind, that refurbishing the pedals is the absolute worst job one can undertake on a TD/TF.

When I did mine in about 1965, I did it with the hope that it would outlive me. The most important modifications I made, were to scribe spiral scrolls around the new pedal shaft, and add a second zirk fitting.

Before re-assembly, I slathered everything in sight with MOS² (Molybdenum Disulphide), and gave them another shot once it was all back together. That was 50 years ago and I get only minimal side play today, and that's after 200,000 miles, and I changed the motor 3 times to the pedal box once!

Bud, I urge you to consider the spiral scroll and the MOS² treatment. B&G sell a pedal shaft with the scroll but you can do it yourself. I did mine using NEW triangular files. I first marked the shaft, then cut two spiral grooves 180° apart, all by manual eye-ball.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Wish I'd known about 'pedal shaft' 25 years ago when I had the bare frame to work on. I did the file scroll work on 'the53' and plan on doing it again. Hadn't thought about molly, but that's well worth doing. Bud
Bud Krueger

This thread was discussed between 13/02/2014 and 19/02/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.