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MG TD TF 1500 - Pedal removal

Hi All,

While bleeding my brakes & adjusting my clutch last weekend, I found that the brake pedal had quite a bit of "wiggle" on the shaft. So I suspect that the bushings are gone, and possibly the pedal is hogged out.

I checked my MG manuals and I couldn't find anywhere that explained the procedure to remove the pedal shaft, pedals, etc. Do I need to remove the floorboard on the driver's side?

Thanks for any help.
Scott Linn

Scott.

Not to scare you off, but you just found what is typically referred to as the single worst job to do on a TD.

Take the floor out. It makes access easier.

I did mine with the tub off, so I will leave the details up to those brave soles that have done this with the tub on.
Bruce-C

Scott - As Bruce stated, this is the single worse job on the TD and he did it with the body tub off. Take a real hard look at the amount of wiggle in the brake pedal (even with new bushings, there is still some wiggle left in the pedal) and decide if you REALLY need to get in there and replace the bushing or if you can live with it. I did the pedal shaft bushings and brake pedal bushing when I had the tub off also and wouldn't do it again unless somebody had a gun to my head (even then I would have to think about it a bit). If you decide to go ahead with the job, contact me about some modifications that should be made the the pedal shaft. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Whoa... I thought it looked a bit difficult, but I had no idea.

If I try to "twist" the pedal, it seems pretty tight.

If I push the side of the brake pedal from left to right, the pad moves ~1" to the right. The clutch pedal doesn't move at all.

Does that sound normal?

This was my dad's car, and he had it for 26 years, but probably put less than 100 miles on it during that time, and I'm still heavily in learning mode.


Scott Linn

Dave, you make me curious: what kind of modifications are you talking about.
I still have my tub off and I wanted to remove the pedals in order to put this rubber fume excluder in place. It seems to me that this is the only way, or....Greetings, huib
Huib Bruijstens

Huib,

You don’t need to remove the pedals to replace the rubber dust cover, just remove the pad backing plates and (with a stretch) it should slide over the two arms.
I suspect that the mod that Dave D. mentioned is to cut a helical groove around the pedal shaft, this is to improve the grease flow. I think, that although this may be a good idea for cars that are used intensively, for our low mileage usage, the normal greasing frequency is sufficient.

John

52 TD


J Scragg

John, I just cracked a brand new one by trying the stretching. Huib
Huib Bruijstens

Scott,
I did it when I was converting to a 5 speed, so I already had the car on jack stands and the floor removed... Actually, I don't think the floor has to be removed for this operation,, See the 4 pictures on the bottom...
http://ctmgclub.homestead.com/files/photoh/photo84.htm
It took time, but I'm glad I did it! It seems so simple, but it is trying to get the key into the key way and attach the spring in such a small confined space that takes the time....

SPW
Steve Wincze

Huib,

I have removed and replaced the same dust excluder several times over the past 10 years without any problem. The only thing that I can suggest is that you contact your supplier and explain the situation. They may have had a bad batch of these parts.


John
J Scragg

Huib
You may try warming it in the oven (while the wife is away) a bit to make it stretch easier.

tim

tw hager

I found some sharp edges on the metal brake and clutch arms that extend through the rubber excluder. Before installing a new excluder, I covered the sharp edges with electrical tape. Next, I slathered silicone dielectric grease on the metal parts and the inside of the rubber excluder. Although it was a stretch, the excluder went on without difficulty. I wiped off any silicone grease that extendend outside the excluder.

Tthe silicone grease may reduce the exposure of the rubber to oxygen (at least on the inside of the excluder, which is now coated with the silicone grease) slowing the oxidation process that leads to brittle and cracking rubber.

Larry
Larry Shoer

I thought I had some play in my pedals so replace said bushings only to end up with almost the same amount of play. But I did not have 1" like you on the brake pedal. I did mine once with the floor board in place, second time with the floor board out. Def easier with the floor out but a bugger either way.
l rutt

Huib - Below is a picture of the modification to the pedal shaft. There is an extra hole drilled and the helical groves cut to distribute the grease better. No, this modification probably doesn't need to be done on a seldom driven car (it came out back when we drove our T series cars a lot - some even as everyday cars), but if one is replacing the bushings, it is easy enough to do when the shaft is out.

The clutch pedal doesn't flop back and forth because it is keyed to the shaft and is held in place with pinch bolt.

I suppose that the whole job could be done without removing the floor boards, but the mechanic would probably spend the rest of his/her days in mental and physical rehab. It is a bitch of a job anyway you cut it and anything one can do (remove floor boards, body tub, etc.) to make it easier will definitely inprove your well being. Cheers - Dave


David DuBois

Huib,

I'm not an expert yet, but you've been kind enough to respond to my posts before so....I replaced my dust excluder (from Moss) with no problems last summer. I had the pedals off to remove the extenders at the time. Just one or two bolts for each as I remember. Easy. I then took my time and the excluder went on just fine-twice! Just a bit of "stretch" required, nothing major though.

Regards,
Ed - '50 TD
efh Ed

Hi Scott, the guys aren't exagerating. It is worse than that. Some years ago I bruised or cracked a rib doing it. You have to remove the seats, tunnel cover, and the left floorboard. Remove the cover (center side), the circlip outside the frame rail (sort of up under the fender)and the grease fitting, the clutch rod link (remove cotter pin and then the clevis pin) and remove the rod to get it out of the way, then the pinch bolt that goes through the clutch pedal bottom. Take the nut off and push the bolt clear out (there is a groove in the shaft that it locks the pedal in). Then you can wiggle the shaft toward the center, and/or tap it from the outside, and hopefully it will come out. There is a key between the clutch pedal and the shaft, and some spacer washers. Check for shaft wear, replace if deeply worn. Note the the end arm on the new ones may be too thick, or not bent enough, so it will need modifying to fit the cover plate on. If you are lucky and have a later car with the hole in the bottom of the box it is much easier. Otherwise, reverse order, and good luck. George PS- put some good padding over the door threshold to avoid the rib injury !
George Butz

"If you are lucky and have a later car with the hole in the bottom of the box it is much easier."

Mine is an early 1952 and it doesn't appear to have a hole in the bottom of the box.

This brings up an interesting idea.

Would it be possible/reasonable to cut out the bottom of the pedal box from below and fit it with a cover to make all of this easier in the future? I wonder why they didn't do that in the first place.

Only one person mentioned the play in the pedal. Is a 1" pivot from left to right in the brake pedal a huge amount? It seems like that to me, and is why I think it needs to be addressed, but I am interested in hearing what "normal" play is when pushing on the left (or right) side of the brake pad. Mine "flops" back to the left when released.

And George, I'm a caver, so I'm used to bending my body over rocks & into small places for hours at a time, so hopefully it won't be too much worse. I'll definitely pad the door threshold!

Lots of good information coming, thanks guys.

Scott Linn

Scott, yes an opening in the bottom makes it much easier. Maybe someone with a TF or a later TD could measure the factory one for size. A TD that used to be around had a hacksawed "flap" that started at the corners of the side plate back almost to the frame rail- I guess you just bent it back to do the work (a bit extreme, not to mention sloppy). One inch way too much slop- would drive me crazy. I recall at reassembly getting the clutch pedal/shaft/key/bolt all in the right place at the same time is a big problem, also connecting the brake pedal return spring (which is super-easy if a bottom hole). At least your box won't be full of sand like we have. George
George Butz

Scott, you need to clarify whether the play you speak of is the pedal bush rocking on the shaft or sliding sideways along the shaft? Regards, Richard.
R Payne


I'm pretty sure it's not sliding sideways. When I push it from left to right, it rocks/pivots to the right, and when released, flops back to it's original position.

I'll check to make sure tonight.

What locates the pedal(s) along the shaft? It's not clear from the on-line Moss diagrams I see, unless the pedals are pushed up against the sides of the box with washers acting as spacers, and one pedal against a circlip.


Scott Linn

The brake pedal is hard against a washer which is against the clutch actuating arm at the end of the pedal shaft, then there is another washer/spacer, then the clutch pedal which is located by its pinch bolt (there's a relief in the pedal shaft through which the bolt passes, positively locating the clutch pedal). The brake pedal arm cannot slide side to side.

I just did this job myself....

HTH!
Rob Edwards

Yes indeed. Undoubtedly, the single worst job to do on a T-Series. It was the fitting of the woodruff key that was the killer.

I replaced my pedal shaft in the late 60s when the original article came out in the TSO, suggesting the spiral-cut grooves and MOS² lubricant.

Here is is 45 years later, and my pedal shaft is still firm with no wiggle.

For those of you with the TSO CD, the article is in there (I don't have one but I'm told its there).

A dirty job at best but the mod has paid off.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Dear Huib,

you have to warm up the pedaldust extruder in boiling water and then it moves easily over the pedals.

Greetings,

Jan
JTM Mekes

Scott, if you do decide to replace the bushing in the brake pedal then be sure the new bushing is completely flush with both sides of the pedal prior to re-installing. If it extends even a little bit beyond the edge of the pedal then it will bind and the clutch return spring will not be sufficient to return the clutch pedal to the disengaged position. Fortunately, my tub and floor boards are removed so it wasn't such a bad job.

Don Scott OR
don scott

Scott, One thing that will make access down there easier is to take the steering wheel off first - only takes a couple of minutes and makes a huge difference.Regards, Richard.
R Payne

I did this job last summer TWICE! First time I was an amateur; second time as a "professional."

Inserting the woodruff key was certainly a challenge. I found the perfect tool was an 18" long tweezers I had picked up at Hershey many years ago.

Once I got it all assembled I put the circlip on the end of the shaft. It seemed to fit in the slot at the end of the shaft. When I stepped on the pedal (brake, I think) the circlip popped off and flew out of the garage.

I found another circlip and a tried again (more carefully). When I realized that the circlip was catching the slot but not fully seating I was forced to start all over again.

I disassembled the pedal assembly and measured every component (pedals and spacers) with digital calipers. It turned out that the new spacers I purchased from Moss Motors (324-430) were just slightly thicker than the originals (by 0.00x"!)preventing the pedal shaft from sufficiently protruding from the frame so that the circlip slot did not clear.

I replaced the original spacers and put it all back together again, this time as a "professional".

Moral of the story: don't replace your old spacers if you don't have to. If you replace them, make sure the new ones are not to thick or you will have to do the job twice.

Mark Sherman
mrkshrmn (at) hotmail.com
Mark A. Sherman

"...or you will have to do the job twice."
Ugh - a fate worse than death! Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

David,I just finished making the modifications you recommended. Thanks for advising, Huib
Huib Bruijstens

This thread was discussed between 01/04/2009 and 20/04/2009

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