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MG TD TF 1500 - Push Botton Start Switch

As my tendonitis/arthritis, you-name-it-itis gets pretty painful at times in my right hand, I was considering adding a push button starter. As the TD has no starter relay, there's no way I'm wiring a push switch directly to the current starter in parallel, by simply replacing it with a small button.

How can I wire a push button starter to a starter relay, and then wire the relay to the existing starter connections without removing or disconnecting it, or and without a lot of added wiring?

Just something I'm considering. Thanks.

Larry
L Karpman

Mine had an early MGB solenoid added at some point.. I have an old Austin (?) starter switch (push to start) hooked up by wire to the solenoid. Works every time. The original choke and starter pull switches were changed to little flat chrome ones... choke works, starter isn't connected.
gblawson - TD#27667

Thanks Gordon. Ok, push button switch is wired to the solenoid, where are the wires connected coming "from" the solenoid? Seems to me they might connect right up to the current connections (battery post on current switch and starter post on current switch). Again, being electrically challenged, this way might fry lots of things, or me! :-)

Larry
L Karpman

The MGB solenoid is basically the same as what you have now as far as the heavy starter wires. Just instead of a cable you have wires!
Believe a wire goes from the ammeter to the pull/push start button...other side of button goes to solenoid...a solenoid can be thought of as sort of a mechanical relay...(or a 'big' switch opened/closed by a little bit of power from the starter button)?
gblawson - TD#27667

Gordon is correct.

There are many more gifted here in electrical than I, but think of a relay as a heavy duty remote switch, able to handle heavy duty current. It has a coil inside which is energized by a small current using small wires. The new starter push button will close, passing a current through the coil, not through the heavy duty switch portion of the relay. The energized coil becomes a magnet which moves the big heavy duty contacts into position passing current from the heavy duty wire to the starter, but not through the coil portion of the relay. When you let go of the starter button, the coil de-energizes, and the heavy duty contacts release, opening the circuit to the starter, and it stops spinning.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

One problem (which is why mine is set up the way it is) is that the pull switch on your dash pulls a long cable... There isn't a matching 'push' button that will look like the old one which matches the choke 'pull'. You would have to add the push button under the dash, or on your panel and leave the original as a 'dummy'.
Originally, my two (starter/choke) were changed to a chrome set...for some reason the starter pull was not strong enough to actually use (although I haven't hooked it up electrically), so they buried the new (?) push starter button up under the dash facing down. I moved it out to the panel that faces the driver.

http://gblandco.com/gb/starterpanel.jpg
gblawson - TD#27667

Larry,
In the above discussion, nobody mentioned that you undo the heavy cables from the existing starter switch, and connect them to the big bolts on the solenoid.

Then a small wire from the hot side of the battery (at the solenoid is OK) to the push button, then the other side of the push button to the small contact on the solenoid.



Don Harmer

Thanks Dave, Gordon, Don.

Don: If I understand then, just the solenoid, no relay is required.

Gordon: I do have an aux panel that I will be using for the front/rear fog and the driving light switches. I believe an AH push start button would look quite period.

In any case, just something I'm considering so I don't get a shooting pain in my hand each time I pull the starter when this flares up on me.
L Karpman

If you go with a relay you can keep your original starter, just replace the pull to contact switch with a new switch (a relay) which activates with a small current activated by your push to start switch, instead of with the cable pulling the contacts into position. Modern starter motors have the solenoid (a relay of sorts) attached to them so a small current from the ignition key energizes the coil, activating the large contacts for the starter current. You could even keep your original pull to start cable and original pull to contact switch on your car and wire the relay in parallel to it.

dave
Dave Braun

"If you go with a relay you can keep your original starter, just replace the pull to contact switch with a new switch (a relay) which activates with a small current activated by your push to start switch, instead of with the cable pulling the contacts into position."

Thanks Dave. That was my original thought. I thought I could use a late MGB starter relay. 2 wires from the relay to the button, and two wires from the relay to the existing contacts on the current switch which would still wired in place. No?

If I go the solenoid route though, a friend recommended an inepensive ($10) Ford '65 - '87 starter solenoid that can be found anywhere. Don't know yet which I will do IF I decide to install the push button. Thanks again.

Larry

L Karpman

Larry, the thing that's being referred to as a solenoid is just a heavy duty relay. All you need to do is to get that Ford starter solenoid and connect it in place of the TD starter switch. That takes care of the two large terminals on the solenoid. The smaller terminal will actuate (close) the solenoid when you apply 12 volts to it. This is what you do with the pushbutton switch. Connect one side of the pushbuton to any constant source of 12 volts, such as the solenoid terminal that's connected directly to the battery, and the other side of the pushbutton to the smaller terminal on the solenoid. It's certainly possible to connect another relay into the circuit that will be actuated by the pushbutton and will, in turn, actuate the solenoid. IMHO, that's just adding complexity.
Bud Krueger

Larry

Look at the engine compartment picture of this TD on E-bay. You can see that they replaced the pull switch with a modern solenoid. It will give you some idea of what it looks like installed on the firewall.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MG-T-Series-1950-MG-TD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31858QQhashZitem140068054283QQihZ004QQitemZ140068054283QQrdZ1

As the others have stated. A fairly straight forward installation. Attach the battery cable and the starter cable to the solenoid, add a wire to the switch you install (I would hide it under the dash) and then run the other wire to a power supply. I recommend the power side of the key. I would fuse this wire. This makes it so you cannot turn over the engine without the key on. The solenoid does not require a lot of voltage to be activated.

Using an early MGB solenoid will give you the advantage of having a remote starter switch under the hood (early B had a pushbutton on the end of the solenoid). The early B also is all metal and not black plastic (it polishes up very nicely). It may look a bit better.
BEC Cunha

Thanks Bud. I imagine I can go either way, but I just thought that adding the relay, in lieu of the solenoid, would allow me to keep all existing wires in place and be wired up parallel to it. That way, the relay could sit under the dash and just have 2 wires going through the existing firewall gromet to the existing heavy duty connectors. But, not being an electrical guy, I didn't know if that was correct. As you say, it may just be making things more complex. When it comes to things electrical, I am closer to the MP "Twit" Olympics, than I am to an EE :-)

BTW Bud, I have your excellent pertronix pages printed out and am awaiting my friend's adjustable timing light on Tuesday. I can go with the 1/4" BTDC as you suggest also before then, but Tuesday is soon enough as I have other fish to fry :-). I wired up the Sports coil last night. Went with the modern one as the Lucas SA-12 red top, screw in connector, originals I cannot find new (or used that I can be confident are up to par). Thanks again.

Larry
L Karpman

Thanks Bruce. Hmm, didn't know about the remore start capability. Looks like I have more than info to go any way I choose. Thanks to all!!! Love this forum.

Larry
L Karpman

Ok, I'll add one other possibility. Leave the current starter switch in place and connected, add a solenoid in parallel with it and wire the solenoid to a push switch added under the dash (or where ever you want it to be). That leaves the original switch in place and operating, but gives you the push switch for eas of operation. Larry, if you would like, I can make up a drawing for you to follow and I think that I may have a replacement MGB starter solenoid that sell you at a very reasonable price (I'll check if I still have it). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Be happy for any diagrams etc. Dave. Thanks!! You have my email address.

Larry
L Karpman

Larry:

Where in Texas are you? Northern? If feasible, bring the car to Wichita. I'll install the solenoid and wire it for you.

John
John Masters

Thanks for the kind offer John, I'm in the DFW area. I can wire the car as long as I have a diagram or description to follow. My problem is always figuring out a custom install myself. Once I have a diagram, or a description, I'm good to go :-)

Next time I'm at our facility in Wichita, I'll give you a ring. Love to see your car.

Larry
L Karpman

Larry, I'm not sure what Dave DuBois will provide with regard to a diagram (I'm sure it will be great!) but I'll just slightly disagree with Bruce on this one. He suggests wiring the power for the push button on the switched side of the ignition, I would go on the unswitched side, as there are times when turning the engine over without spark is an advantage (such as building oil pressure after a long lay away). The original manual pull starter works without the ignition key on as well, so I would install the push button to do the same.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Larry:

Please contact me by e-mail. I may have some additional info for you.

John
john masters

Good point Dave. That would be similar to what is there now. My thought was that you have another live wire in the car if you wire it directly to a hot terminal. For myself, I am a bit uncomforatble with wires that are always powered in the TD, just another potential for a short and fire,
BEC Cunha

"I would go on the unswitched side, as there are times when turning the engine over without spark is an advantage" A screwdriver shank between the two large solenoid terminals will accomplished that, and you don't have to reach inside the passenger compartment.

To give equal treatment to both sides of the discussion - "My thought was that you have another live wire in the car if you wire it directly to a hot terminal. For myself, I am a bit uncomforatble with wires that are always powered in the TD, just another potential for a short and fire". An in line 10 amp fuse will solve this worry. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

David DuBois,

You have a lot more experience (practical and otherwise) then I do, but a spark from contacting the two large terminals right next to the fuel pump and the float bowls always gives me pause. Not to mention the pitting and carbon scoring I usually induce on the terminals! In this case, I probably shouldn't worry, afterall, properly connected fuel components don't leak, right?

warm New Year wishes to you and Liz!
dave
Dave Braun

Dave, have had that set up since I got the car... http://www3.sympatico.ca/gordonblawson/td/td107.jpg .... haven't had a (gulp) problem with any sparks, etc!
gblawson - TD#27667

Gordon

Nice placement. I would put just a bit of tape over the wire, just on the safe side. That close to the fuel bowl, I would not want any potential for a spark.

Dave. Yes, fusing is an absolute,
BEC Cunha

Gordon,

It's not your set up I worry about, it is the manual shorting of the terminals on the starter solonoid with a hefty screw driver shank to turn over the engine from outside the cockpit that makes me jittery!

HNY,
dave
Dave Braun

Ahhh... the MGB solenoid has a rubber covered button in the middle of it that you can use...!
gblawson - TD#27667

Moss sells boots to put on the cables and should be used on the starter switch connections and the connections to the solenoid (if used). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

My car came with an installed starter button under the dash (to the left of the wheel). I once saw an ad for this push button accessory for the TD in a magazine from the 50,s. Awhile back I was browsing a Tractor Supply store and spotted the same starter switch and button in stock at a very low price. Mine is wired hot and is useful for bringing the oil pressure up. Mike
mike barnes

This thread was discussed between 30/12/2006 and 01/01/2007

MG TD TF 1500 index

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