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MG TD TF 1500 - Questions on making a walnut dash
| I've found I can't get 1/2" walnut plywood to make a new dash panel, so.... I think I'll go the veneer route. Has anyone else done this? I'm looking at a backed walnut veneer and use a heat activated glue (iron on type). This seems to provide the best combination of durability and eas of task. What have any of you all done? |
| l rutt |
| I'm going that way. If you don't want to go veneer and want walnut then you would have to solid wood. Expensive. |
| LED DOWNEY |
| Veneer is great. I have had experience with both iron on and contact cemented types. I like the iron on best. Nice and smooth! I like marine ply underneeth, but a good exterior grade will work. The chrome edge beading finishes it off nicely when done and protects the edges of the veneer from splitting off. If you are using someone else's dash as a pattern, be careful that you get the proper speedo and tach diameters. The dish and flat types are different! |
| Steven Tobias |
| This may sound stupid, but I've often looked at walnut veneered tables on garage-/yard sales as a dirt cheap source of a walnut dashboard.... |
| Willem vd Veer |
| I have a solid walnut dash. You plane the wood down to the correct size and then install over the backer board dash that is on the car. it is much better than plywood and with the proper finish will not crack or break. Mine has been on the car for over 10 years with no problem. You must cut in the inlets for the very good MG ligthting and the dash but that is not a problem. |
| TRM Maine |
| You'd have to get a solid piece of walnut that is 12" wide by 4' long then. 12" could be a challenge, or did you edge glue pieces together to get your piece? |
| l rutt |
| Solid wood would work just fine, although I would be tempted to run it through a planner and make it 1/4" thinner, then laminate a piece of 1/4 marine ply on the back side. Marine or aircraft ply has a few more layers then normal and is much stronger... You could also start with a piece cut to size, then you can visit any 'exotic' lumber supplier and find veneer. When I have done it, i used the old style contact cement (haven't had luck with latex) and non backed veneer.... This is one I did for my Nephew... and you will see latex contact...ended up cracking in a couple of places http://www.gblandco.com/gb/tr4dash/tr4dash.html |
| gblawson |
| If you will use walnut veneer please do it the right way I mean you should use two sheets Venire and join it in the centerline. Then to the LH and to the RH side you will get a mirror view. On the picture you can see mine after ten layer marine varnish. One word to the gluing process. Sure you can use the iron on system but I recommend the old fashion traditional method with white cabinet makers glue and two solid planks and a couple of clamps to bring this sandwich together. Good luck and a very merry Christmas to all of you. Cheers, Guenter  |
| Guenter |
| The place I get all my lumber supplies all sorts of woodworkers...and they keep their veneer in layers which are all 'matchbooked'.... As Guenter mentioned, you join in the middle so both sides match (there again, the dash panel and big gauges sort of hide the effort)! |
| gblawson |
| I did quite a bit of veeneering work many years ago (I also built a solid exotic wood dash for a souped up Morris Minor, but that's a different story - I had to steam it to curve it to fit and hand route out all the Jaguar instrumentation the client wanted in place). The best veneer method in my opinion is the traditional method, using hot glue. NOT Iron on glue, hot glue in a gluepot kept at a constant 140 degrees. Iron on is a bad substitute, and hot glue does better than any other in terms of penetrating the wood - it's still the method of choice in fine cabinetmaking and instrument making. You can look it up, it's really not that hard to do. I made backgammon sets out of maple and walnut veneers that way, and I still have a beautiful set in which the wood hasn't peeled or split yet - 30 years later. Oh and the very best thing about hot glue - it's very forgiving, you can keep working with it till you fix your mistakes. This is critically important when you're likely to have bubbles - as you are likely to when trying to veneer almost any large surface such as an MG dash! http://www.hubharp.com/technical_articles2/soundboard_hotglue.htm is a link I found on the web |
| Geoff Baker |
| I veneered my TD's dash 20 years ago during the restoration. I got the Birds Eye Maple veneer from an exotic wood supply store who promised me it had been kiln dried. After a few years exposure to the sun, it has shrunk and cracked along the middle. I now find myself contemplating doing the job again. Irritating. |
| G.E. Love |
| G.E.Love. Do you remember what you used for glue way back then? I have used iron on laminates and contact cement to install at least 10 dash boards. I am in florida and the heat and sun is heavy duty. I have not had a shrinking problem yet. I have always use a two part epoxy for the finish. Sandy |
| SANDY SANDERS |
| Well, I can tell you what not to use. Don't use the rolled up veneer you can purchase at local hardware stores. I used this peel ans stick veneer on my dash. Looks OK, but nothing like solid wood or real veneer. |
| BEC Cunha |
| What a coincidence. Just today, I contacted Exotic Woods in Burlington Ontario asking about some wood to make a new dash for my PA. I got the car with a cobbled-up dash made of wood from old orange crates, (see pic) and the original instruments replaced with motorcycle speedometer and everything else re-arranged ... not a happy scene. I do have a set of original instruments, so that’s not a problem. I specified that the wood should be a Canadian hardwood, and clean, and without any major visible blemish. There are lots of nice choices including Bird’s Eye Maple and Crimson Maple (of which Gord Lawson has just made a steering wheel in Toasted Maple). However we settled on Canadian Black Walnut which I am sure, will be very pretty when finished. I had rejected Burled Walnut but after seeing the pictures of Dave Jorgensen’s TD dash, I may reconsider, but I may start with the Black Walnut and see what kind of a job I can do. Its also, about a quarter the price of Burled Walnut. Anyway, this thread is very interesting, and I’m still learning. Gord Clark Rockburn, Qué.  |
| Gordon A Clark |
@ Geoff, I agree with you, the old hot glue can be very good for this job but you need a lot of experience to do that. Therefore I would recommend today the use of some sort of Carpenters Glue like the Elmer's Glue. @ G.E.Love, use a good marine varnish to protect the wood. UV-protection is the key. Cheers, Guenter  |
| Guenter |
| Gordon... I have a dash for a (I think it is a PA...not sure....took a tracing from one of Bob Grunau's cars) I refinished his and while it was here I did the tracing....wasn't happy with the finish because I hadn't discovered Pettit Z Spar 2015 varnish....  |
| gblawson |
| Well, I do still have some scraps left from my floor boards so that could be a good backing for a dash. There really is nothing wrong with the dash wood that's there. I may look at a raw wood walnut veneer and still investigate the glue types. Nothing is ever easy, except spending money. |
| l rutt |
Titebond® III is the most advanced wood glue available today. It combines the strength, sandability, ease of use and water cleanup of PVAs (aliphatic resins) with the durability, open time and water-resistance of polyurethanes. Waterproof - Passes ANSI/HPVA Type I Specification Superior strength Longer open time Lower application temperature Resists solvents, heat and mildew Unaffected by finishes Water cleanup & Non-toxic FDA approved for indirect food contact Sands easily without softening Safer than traditional waterproof glues I know Titebond III is not the traditional glue used for veneering but a pretty good choice for the home hobbiest. I use it for all wood applications including a few small veneering projects by thinning with a little water and once it sets it is permanent. I was a little skeptical that a one part wood glue could be waterproof so I glued a couple pieces of wood together and then after it had fully cured I soaked it in a bucket of water and after a couple days it still held tight. Regards, Rich |
| Richard Taylor |
| Speaking of 'Exotic Wood' in Burlington (that is where I get all my wood), they had the most beautiful sheet of Walnut Burl I have ever seen...it was marked $24.00 so I took it up to the counter and he mentioned 'Oh...that is per square foot'.... I was holding about $150 worth of veneer!!! |
| gblawson |
| Now you guys have started me thinking... absolutely nothing wrong with my current dash (my dad put in a walnut veneer dash back in the 80s and it is in good shape... but I could go down to the wood supply store and pick up some really nice exotic wood... do a little marquetry... I could inlay "MG" into the glovebox door maybe? or something more complicated... I'll dream on it... Re hot glue and other comments: it is an old method so it is certainly tried and true. It is not at all hard to do - just mixing it and heating it - and requires no particular skill at all to use. It is extremely forgiving and can be worked for a long time, which is a huge advantage, especially when doing marquetry, that is, doing wood and veneer patterns and inlays. Disadvantages: it will not be as waterproof as new glues. But then if you go with any kind of varnish finish, that will protect and waterproof. Lastly, if anyone really wants to do the elbow work, you just cannot get a better finish than old style French polishing - rubbing the wood for hours and hours... it brings out wood like nothing else on earth. But with my current dash, I've just used weekly coats of tung oil. Down here in AZ, I think it's a good idea to consider wood finishes that 'breathe'... varnishes and resins seal the wood permanently which can lead to cracking over time especially when you have temperature extremes. Any good oil finish is waterproof so long as it is regularly applied (and applied whenever needed); it will only allow water in if the oil dries out.... |
| Geoff Baker |
| Here in Mpls. we can get wood of all sizes. I bought mine from a Hardwood supply place in St. Paul. I also have a lot of walnut in my garage, ranging in size from 5/4 thick to 3 inches and from 6 to 12 inches in width up to 8 feet long. I had 17 walnut trees cut at a local lumber mill so am walnut rich.. Trouble is it is almost all straight grain. The really good stuff is out there and not all that expensive. Lew Palmer who is on this site also has a place out east somewhere that has a great supply of quality veneers. |
| TRM Maine |
| Now you guys have started me thinking... absolutely nothing wrong with my current dash (my dad put in a walnut veneer dash back in the 80s and it is in good shape... but I could go down to the wood supply store and pick up some really nice exotic wood... do a little marquetry... I could inlay "MG" into the glovebox door maybe? or something more complicated... I'll dream on it... Re hot glue and other comments: it is an old method so it is certainly tried and true. It is not at all hard to do - just mixing it and heating it - and requires no particular skill at all to use. It is extremely forgiving and can be worked for a long time, which is a huge advantage, especially when doing marquetry, that is, doing wood and veneer patterns and inlays. Disadvantages: it will not be as waterproof as new glues. But then if you go with any kind of varnish finish, that will protect and waterproof. Lastly, if anyone really wants to do the elbow work, you just cannot get a better finish than old style French polishing - rubbing the wood for hours and hours... it brings out wood like nothing else on earth. |
| Geoff Baker |
| I looked into the term French Polish (just put it into your search engine) and started to read...and read, and read...finally thought it was too much even for a fuss ass like me... I use Pettit Z-Spar Marine varnish(think its 2015)...3 coats, steel wool in between...let dry a full 24 hours between coats...steel wool off the gloss and then polish with a cotton cloth...the surface will be beautiful, and you can polish a semi gloss back with just the cloth....  |
| gblawson |
| French polish (or Freedom Polish as we like to call it today) is not for the faint of heart. I did it on that Morris Minor dash I mentioned earlier... it was extremely labor intensive - for a fuss ass like me too... but I swear, the darn thing glowed from within when it was finished. I've never ever seen a better finish on wood. The wood itself, as I recall, I sanded down ultra fine and then used a steel to scrape it, no steel wool. A scraper (just a rectangle of steel which you burnish one edge with to create an incredibly fine, tool hardened, burr which acts like a fantastically sharp micro knife, and will put a finish on wood second to none, done right. Another old woodworker's tool lost to time. |
| Geoff Baker |
| Your right, I have a couple brass scrapers a friend made for me...use them for various things....just not the rounded part of a steering wheel.... |
| gblawson |
| Sandy, I used Elmers Wood Glue then and it seemed to do a good job for a few years. Then a crack appeared and that was followed by a few blisters. Time, I think, especially as want to redesign the layout to accomodate two more small instruments. Guenter, I used polyurethane then and it delivered a good finish which was impervious to rain. I'll check out your suggestion, however. Thank you. Gordon, I've done some furniture finishing in French polish. Hard work and I do not think it would withstand the rigours of outdoor use too well. Remember what a cool glass of beer will do to a table finished in French. Condensation will leave a ring. As French polish is, basically, the carapace of a dead Malasian beetle disolved in alcohol, imagine what a spilled gin and tonic would do to the dash if it slopped from the beer mug during a hard stop at, say, a traffic light or sobriety check point. Geoff...Why Freedom Polish??? Same as Freedom Fries??? |
| G.E. Love |
| Geoff, If you do marquetry (we call it parquetry, in Cunuk-land) go for it. If you have those skills, I’ll bet it could look great. I wouldn’t dare try it! Gord L, That’s for sure a PA dash. And like all your work, its absolutely beautiful. However despite your kind gesture, I won’t need a tracing. The fact is, I have 2 dashboards - one original, and the other I showed (above). But I would be grateful for your comments on my choice of Canadian Black Walnut and what kind of a look I can expect to get. I will probably ask you to do my Brooklands wheel, but that’s not in the budget ‘till August of 2010. Gord Clark Rockburn, Qué. |
| Gordon A Clark |
| It is hard to know just what they sent you... here are three rims in their Walnut... You can however, darken, or warm up the finish with stain...not something I can do as I don't want to change the light maple layer....  |
| gblawson |
| G Love, yes it was just a bad joke like Freedom Fries. Geoff |
| Geoff Baker |
This thread was discussed between 22/12/2009 and 25/12/2009
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