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MG TD TF 1500 - Seat belts for TF

I've checked the archives (and there is a lot of info there) but cannot seem to find a definitive answer. Where can you buy a pair of seat/lap belts that have the vintage look yet are effective? Also, how long should the belts be and what is the best mounting hardware to purchase?
Thanks,
Mark Stolzenburg
Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
Mark Stolzenburg

Vintage look you can get at Moss and almost certainly other places - effective is a matter of quite diverse opinions. If the "ineffective under any circumstances" camp is correct it probably doesn't matter where you anchor them.

Jud
J K Chapin

I'm a firm believer in belts and have used them since day one of driving .....however I do not have any in either the TD or the TF. I think it would take a lot more engineering to get some real protection than what I have seen to date. But if it makes you feel safe than I say go for it. I'd suggest you get a copy of Horst's restoration manual and read his method..although for a TD it would be the same for the TF.
MG LaVerne

Notwithstanding my earlier comment, I have seat belts in my TD because, like MG, I've used them ever since I traded in the '56 Ford for a '62 TR-4 and I just feel comfortable with them.

Jud
J K Chapin

Not to hijack, but I'm looking for a decent source for aircraft-release seatbelts (the kind with a single lever that lifts), which give the proper vintage feel and look to a hard-driven TC.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Did you get my email Tom?
MG LaVerne

There is a comprehensive instruction for seat belt installation in "The Complete M.G.TD Restoration Manual" by Horst Schach. His approach would probably work for a TF too. The best vintage look are belts with the "aircraft type" buckle. John
JR Mahone

Unfortunately, there is no realistic anchor point for a three point belt system on a T series MG. There are adiquite mounting points for lap belts, utilizing the tub mounting points as the outboard belts and the junction of the cross brace and the transmission tunnel on the inboard belts. This requires drilling a hole for the inboard belts.
There is no anchor for a shoulder belt in the absence of a roll bar. I am convinced lower mounting points of shoulder belts would provide crushing injurious forces to the neck, spine and shoulder in the event crash.
I am a firm believer in and user of lap belts in the MG. in the event of a crash or a rollover, the belts will keep you in the seat.
Lap belts will not prevent impact from the steering wheel or dashboard. In the event of a serious crash three point belts would only hold you in place while the dashboard or steering wheel impacted the driver and passenger and killed them.
Properally installed three point belts would save the occupants from smashing their face and teeth against the steering wheel and dashboard in low speed impacts only. Much over 20 mph the steering collum and dashboard will come back and impact the occupants. No seat belt would offer any protection against a side impact or a rear impact.
I have seen MGs after fatal accidents where the seatbelts were used, and worked as designed. They held and worked properly, however the impacts of the crash still provided fatal forces.
I have also seen people survive roll overs when wearing only a lap belt. Without seatbelts a rollover is almost certainly a fatal accident. The car will most likely land on the occupants.
IMHO lap belts and cautious driving will go a long way in providing an acceptable level of safety.
D. Sander

I have seat belts in my TD. Don't know who put them in, but I would say they don't offer much protection. Some day I'm going to put in a rollbar and solid mounts for a good 3 point system, though....
Geoffrey M Baker

I've been reading this forum for a few years but seldom have something to say but as one has a serious accident
in my TA, seat belts is one of my hot buttons.
Some years ago I was cruising down the road near Napa, CA at about 45mph a young driver thought he could beat me into a side road. I hit his Chevy 4 dr in the rear door. I had lap belt on but no shoulder. I broke my sternum on the Steering wheel boss and bloodied my nose on something. None of this bodily harm would have happened if I had installed a shoulder belt.
Al Moss always insisted you were safer if you we thrown clear which he was once but I think the odds are against that, so guys put in 3 point belts.
Vintage belts are available from Pegasas Raciing, that is what I have in my TC. The TF and TA have conventional 3 point belts.
Terry
Terry Sanders

Best place for vintage is vintageseatbelts.com

After much searching thru the archives, I went with lap belts - various opinions, but when a back surgeon who was a T owner advised against the 3 point belts I thought why all the extra hassle. I went with the"The Complete M.G.TD Restoration Manual" by Horst Schach.
You make special brackets and weld underneath. DO NOT USE THE SCHACH METHOD!!! My mechanic spent much time in taking them off this week. Here is the problem. WHen the car is sitting, all is well. But when a person gets in and the driveshaft settles and moves closer to the brackets, when a turn is made the brackets scrape the driveshaft! This is with a solid restoration and new springs etc and the nuts could not be ground down enough not to hit. After the fact, searching the archives here on BBS, I found 3 or 4 others who had the same problem. Also found some who did not have a problem. Would not chance it. I considred the vintage wide ones , but eneded up going with black standard ones, and taking the MG emblem on the TF dash and putting it on each buckle. Good luck.
K E MURPHY

The standards that are the only permitted mounting methods in New Zealand are detailed in the PDF I have linked below. All seat belt retrofits must be certified in NZ.

A lot of pages but good sound stuff. There will be something useful among them I am sure.

We have fitted lap and diagonal seatbelts to many TD & TF's to these standards.


http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/standards/LVVTA_STD_Seatbelts_&%20Seatbelt_Anchorages.pdf
Rod Brayshaw

I bought a set of vintage aircraft style lift-latch belts from JEGS speed equipment. They're well made and reasonably priced and give a period competition look. On a T series, I agree they are probably marginally effective at best but at least they keep you in the car when you hit a bump.
Jack Long

Perfect answer, Jack - many thanks.

Tom
t lange

I have three point belts in my TF . Bought them from Moss, old air craft type buckle, click and tighten belt. I am not a surgeon but an MD and have been in the business of dragging people out of car wrecks and trying to keep them alive. I would rather have a severe crush damage to my shoulder than the head through the steering wheel boss.

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

looks like the link is broken from my previous entry.

click on LVVTA and go to Documents, then Standards and go down the list to seat belts.
Rod Brayshaw

Rod

If you copy and paste the original link it works - at least it did for me.

Ian
TF4056
Ian Fry

i bought a set of single lever ..vintage look seat belts..1/2 the price of moss. it was from a construction equipment supplier. very happy with the quality..if my car is totally demolished the seat belts will survive. regards, tom
tm peterson

Could someone measure the lengths of their seat belts and send the measurements to me. I'd like to mount the "buckle" end inwards so the buckle doesn't hit the running board.
Also, I continue to see references to the Horst Schach article on how to mount seat belts but don't have the book. Is the article available elsewhere?
Thanks,
Mark Stolzenburg
Chesterfield, Missouri USA
TF 8263
Mark Stolzenburg

I did use Horst Schach's method of mounting seat belts in my TF; the problem is that if your seat is all the way back--the bottem hits the out-side bracket, See the photo-copy from his book.


David Werblow

as a counter point to jan's post..any crash that a properly installed shoulder harness would be of help will position you for the solid steering column to come back and impale you..you don't have to move forward into it..it is coming back to spear you.
as with all accident speculation..it is all subjective and opinion driven. my post included.

regards, tom
tm peterson

This thread was discussed between 30/05/2014 and 04/06/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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