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MG TD TF 1500 - Slot Head Screws on Early TD

Slot head screws were used on early TD bodies including the dash, floor, side curtain box and fittings, rear tub corner plates, doors and strikers etc. When was the change over date/chassis/body number to Phillips heads? Am I correct in presuming that the items fitted to the back of the seat also used slots on early cars? Apart from the engine ancillary equipment were there any Phillips screws used anywhere on early cars? In one of his upholstering videos, Doug Pelton (FTFU) states that there were no Phillips heads used on the TC bodies. This would have carried over into the TD. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Good question on the date. I am sure it will be somewhat loose but if we can bracket it then that will help early restorers get close.
Christopher Couper

I doubt they bothered with a change over date since that would have created the problem of what to do with the left overs. Early TF's had slotted door hinge screws and Phillips later.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Absolutely Matthew. But there would have been a date that Phillips were introduced on the TD and that would be a big help. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Not a Phillips in sight on TD3042
Lew Palmer

I have not found any phillips on TD 4139

I was working on an original underdash panel today. it has slotted screws.

It also shows that the brackets were put on prior to the rexine being applied.


Bruce Cunha

TD 5801 has the slotted screws on the dash which leads me to think that this location would be a good indicator generally to gauge the introduction of Phillips heads. Cars built before this (1st Feb 1951) date seem to all have slotted heads throughout. So sometime after Feb 1951. I've contacted an owner of an unrestored TD who is sending me some pics of the seat back fittings. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Received advice off line that TD 23004, made in Dec 1952 is fitted with Phillips. This means that Phillips screws were introduced into the TD sometime between Feb 1951 and Dec 1952. I'm sure that this can be refined further. Note however that the slide housings at the rear of the bench seat in Dec of 1952 were still secured with round slot heads, painted black like the housings. See pic. Cheers
Peter TD 5801



P Hehir

Are you talking about the change over date for just the dash, or all the Phillips? They will all be different dates and also depend on location such as Morris Bodyworks VS Abingdon.
M Magilton

Hi Matthew. The important date is when Phillips first appeared on the TD. This is something that can be reasonably accurately determined once more relatively unmolested cars come to light. It is sometime between Feb 51 and Dec 52. Info on this thread suggests there were no Phillips before Feb 1951. The Dec 52 car does show however that there were still slots being used in conjunction with Phillips as late as Dec 52 and possibly even later, for the reason you suggested earlier. The use of Phillips on the dash may not be a very reliable indicator of the introduction date, however the existence of slots there would be, as it's very doubtful - regressive even, that someone would replace Phillips there with slots, whereas the reverse is much more likely. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

TD 19629 (Sept 52) has Philips on windshield brackets, dash, side curtain plates, voltage regulator, door handles, front and rear splash, little sheet metal screws on back of front fender sides, windscreen screws.

Slotted on the fuse block, toolbox lid, ID plates, bonnet latches, tail lamp screws, lower dash trim screws, threshold plate screws, seat L retainer brackets screws, headlamp ring retainer screws.

Places I am uncertain about since these were not original on my car:

The wood screws on the front kick panels, woodscrews on tonneau bar, hood support woodscrews
Christopher Couper

Given the number of Phillips on your car Chris, this seems to narrow the gap to September 1952. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I did find one phillips screw on TD 4139. It appears to be the only one.

It is holding the mysterious rubber bumper to the back side of the inner dash. The bumper appears to be found on all TD's.


Bruce Cunha

Just had an email that shows what the owner (since 1966) believes are original Phillips heads on the tonneau and seat adjusting brackets on his TD. This build date of 7th January 1951 narrows the window considerably to the 11 months between 1st Feb 1951 to 7th January 1952. Does anyone have a TD produced in that period? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Typo. That should read "This build date of 7th January 1952 narrows the window considerably to the 11 months between 1st Feb 1951 to 7th January 1952" Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
I admire your dedication to factory originality. however, as an old philosopher once reminded me "The factory was never concerned with originality." What was used was what was on hand or could be obtained in times of economic troubles. <grin>
Lew Palmer

True Lew. But another wise man also once said "Do it once, do it right" Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

How about "Do it once, do it right, with what is on hand"?
M Magilton

OK Matthew, I get that but this thread is all about the introduction of Phillips heads to TD's. Prior to Henry Phillips patented screw being introduced to the world in the early thirties, "what's on hand" didn't include them. On earlier T Types the choice was either slot head or slot head. There were none on the TC, nor on the early TD. The into date seems to be sometime in 1951, after Feb 1st. Maybe we can refine this further? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter the only car I have that fits your timeline would be dad’s car. I will need to go through my archived material to see if any of the chrome pieces were in place prior to the re timber. It’s been too long since I pulled the car apart to remember details off the top of my head. I’ll see what I can come up with.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Thanks Bill. Be great to narrow it down. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 30/04/2019 and 11/05/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

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