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MG TD TF 1500 - Springs and axles

As usual I went the whole 9 yards and replaced a lot of parts when I converted the rear from a 5.125 to a 4.55.

As a result I have a set of half axles and a set of rear leaf springs. Not sure what they are worth but I will search around the net for some going prices.

If anyone one this forum has an interest or knows someone, let me know.


Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Axles


Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Mort, why did you replace the rear springs and how were the replacement ones. Did you buy them from Moss and did they have the correct camber.

I'm lookingfor an original spring for a TF because the 4 springs I got from Moss sagged after a couple of months.

What is the camber on your springs measured from the table top to the u/s of the spring?

Thanks

Andy
Andy Preston

Andy,
I was experiencing a "bottoming out" on occasion. Since I was replacing the differential I decided to replace other suspect components. I may have been premature in replace the springs if the Moss springs are of poor quality. I did not think to measure the camber of the new springs before I put them on.
I cleaned and painted all the hardware that was usable and replaced all other hardware and the bushings. Per my discussions with Peter Caldwell my shocks seem to be working fine.
You say you bought 4 springs. Was that 2 front and 2 rear?
How did you notice the sag?
Per your experience I just removed my springs from eBay and will hold onto them for a while. If there are no problems with the new ones I will re-list them.

What do the images of the springs tell you? Were they good or bad?


Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Other spring


Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

By convention, camber is measured on the top face of the main leaf, without regard to the eye. Some springs have no eye on one or both ends, and some have them reversed from the usual above the leaf. Positive camber means a space at the center; negative means the center is high.
Numbers are in the WSM.

FRM
FR Millmore

Mort, I'd be very interested in a war story from the diff exchange. I have a 4.55 diff sitting in my garage and have not gotten over the mental hurdle of taking a working axle apart. However, since I need to do the springs and bushings this winter, this may be the opportunity. I am sure I can make the aux tools that are described in the various web sites, but some direct insights are for sure valuable. Also, what specifically did you have to replace other than pinion and crown wheel? I keep reading about the pinion bearing but not sure it is required or just advisable
Thx a lot
Mike
Mike Fritsch

FR, I checked the workshop manual Section I, and I did not find the camber "numbers" you referred to. Where is this information provided?
Corey Pedersen

Mike,
I'm not going to be a lot of help to you. I bought the complete rear end with the 4.55 installed from Dave Clark in Arizona. He refurbishes the rears and re-sells them. I sent my old one back to him as a core for future re-furbishing. I also bought, through him, a new set of the high strength half axles. His assembly came with many extras like the U-bolt buffer plates, seals installed in replacement bearing housings, oil seal collar and new axle castle nuts.
While I was busy back there I replaced the springs and all the bushings. Most of my shackles and shackle pins cleaned up ok so I reused them. I sand blasted the Girling shocks and links and painted them. Replaced the rubber and cleaned and painted the spring plates and shock link brackets. I kept my old rebound rubbers and replaced the check straps. While I was at it I cleaned and hand painted the rear frame and the area around it.

The assembly went well. His instructions were good and he is a pleasure to deal with.

But as you can see I did not take the diff apart just replaced everything. The non-mechanics solution.

Have you rewad this article?

http://www.ttalk.info/RearEndConversion3.pdf
Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Thanks a lot for the info, Mort. I think I've seen a different version of this adticle, if is very detailed anyway. Still a mental hurdle, and I am looking for someone locally who can help if I get stuck ;-)

Will definitely tackle the springs in any case

Rgds Mike
Mike Fritsch

Mike,
If I had a little more experience I would stop by and help you.
Mort
Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Hi Mort, I purchased 4 rear springs from Moss and returned 2 of them. I have one old original TF spring and one new Moss spring on the car. I experience a bouncy ride and bottom out quite a lot on sudden changes in roadway surfaces.

I also had my shocks rebuilt by Peter Cauldwell who says they are OK and the problem is with the rear springs.

The car had one TF and one TD spring when I bought it.

I intend to have the springs tested by a local spring shop and then have 2 springs rearched.

FRM is correct in that the correct way to measure the free camber is from the top of each eye to the u/s of the main spring. It's just easier to measure the height as you did and subtract the eye measurement which is about 1 1/8" in height.

Looking at your springs in your photos the first spring has a camber of approx 3.9" and the second one of approx 4.1". The factory spec should be 4.1"

If your TD was bottoming out I suspect that the springs have lost their resilience.

Andy

Andy Preston

Corey
General Data > Springs, rear > camber (free)> 4.1 in.

Andy -
Springs do not "Lose their resilience". If the dimensions are correct, the resilience/rate will always be the same, 'til Hell freezes over. It is an inherent property of elastic materials, steel here.

FRM
FR Millmore

Would anyone know of another forum that would be appropriate for advertising the springs and axles?
A link would be great.
Thanks,
Mort
Mort (50 TD "Mobius")

Mike,
I'm in the same position and have all the new bearings and seals and a 4.3 CWP. I would tackle it myself but lack the tooling. I spoke to Volker Hermann in Essen recently who told me he can do it and he has a very good reputation. Is that local enough? He has a website:
http://www.getriebe-overdrive.de/index.php?link=kontakt
Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Declan, thanks a lot, that's great news. Will contact you offline for more discussion

Mike
Mike Fritsch

A while back I bought new rear springs for my TF and now finD that I too am having a problem with bottoming out over the slightest bumps. Stupidly I threw out the old springs. The rear shocks were rebuilt. Any ideas from here on in?

Bill
Bill Schroeder

FRM,
Please explain the difference between springs losing their resiliance, and springs that "sag".. ie loose their correct ride height.....

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

I'm an electrical engineer and my mechanics lessons are long ago, but here's what I believe to remember:
Metal has elastic properties that makes it return to its previous state, which would not degrade unless extreme temperature or else change its material properties (like tempering). When you bend it beyond a certain point, it will deform permanently. Elasticity will still be the same, but the shape it returns to has changed.
How that happens to the springs, though, I cannot really explain, since they will not be overextended. I could only assume many "micro" shocks slowly altering the shape over time. Leave that bit to the experts...

Mike
Mike Fritsch

Steve-
As Mike said, sag is because the spring, or some section of it, has reached its elastic limit or yield point, aka "bent". This may be from running without bump stops, but is most likely due to rust and friction causing the spring to deflect mostly at the ends. That's why springs used to have gaiters full of grease on them, but it is costly.
All steels have essentially the same modulus of elasticity, but only correctly heat treated steel of certain alloys has the required high yield point (Yield point is where it ceases to be elastic, and undergoes plastic deformation), so cheap steel or bad heat treat can cause it; these normally fail quickly in service. Anything which changes a critical dimension, especially thickness, will do it. So rust or wear at the points where one leaf contacts another will make thin places, and these will flex more than they are designed to, eventually passing yield. Moral being keep your stuff clean and lubed and it might last forever!

FRM
FR Millmore

This thread was discussed between 04/12/2012 and 15/12/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

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