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MG TD TF 1500 - Starter motor Help please

1951 Mg TD.
Starter motor has suddenly failed.I have just driven about 150 miles with many stop/starts experiencing no problems . It is definitely the motor, I have checked battery, starter switch and all connections.There is power getting to the starter.There is a good earth. The bendix is not jamming.
Operating the pull I can hear the pinion pulling in, but it barely turns the engine.
I removed the starter and opened it up. The brushes appear to be OK.(not worn) ,and I cleaned the commutator which was fairly worn, but cleaned up well.There is no sign of broken wires,the springs are intact and bearing on the brushes and all insulation is intact,however when I test the motor on the bench there is a bit of smoke from the commutator end.
What might I have missed?
The problem is that I am stranded on an island and although the car will easily start with a push, this is not going to be acceptable getting on and off the ferry.
I wish I had a starting handle!.
If anyone has any suggestions on what I might do to get the motor to work,albeit on a temporary basis, I would be grateful.
Luckily I have a decent tool kit with me.
IW Martin


Check the insulator bushing where the brass threaded stud goes through the rear end plate to confirm it is not shorting out and producing the smoke your seeing. It should have fiber washer in each side of the plate.
Richard Cameron



Thanks, Done that, seems OK.
Late evening here, so will have another go in the morning, but any suggestions welcome.
IW Martin

If you have an automotive scrap yard available, some modern scissors jacks have long handles with a cross pin in the end. I have one and use it as a starter handle often, just to set the crank up on TDC.

My cranks handle does not line up well and I have to remove the front bumper to use it.
The Jack handle works well, at least for setting valve lash and points.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Have you attempted a JUMP? Switched the battery? Hooked up a battery charger or jumpers to a good car to recharge the ...or just JUMP to conclusions it has to be the starter motor and not the storage battery or charging circuit?

A marginal generator can let the battery run down, laying the blame on the starter. Decent voltage doesn't necessarily reflect on good cranking amps.

Battery terminals, cables, ground connection, connection to starter and everything in between "appear" to be good. I know the feeling, been there, done all that numerous times.

I jumped to the same conclusion a couple days ago as may J.I.Case skidsteer loader had intermittent starting ailments. Totally different animal but the same disease. I figure it must be brushes were done the way it required numerous flips of the key to convince it to roll over. Ordering a new starter would've been very expensive and a week of down time. Fortunately, I tracked it down to the ignition switch, and not the switch itself, but wiggling the plug to the switch made it function and it is now back to normal!

Use a screw driver or like conductive bar to jump across the starter switch terminals (in neutral!)...

Hook a jumper cable directly to the starter terminal and tap the "hot" battery terminal (as opposed to the grounded terminal + or -). Hook the other cable from the ground terminal to the engine, too, just for luck.

My wife says to push start it- she does it with hers frequently.

I wish you luck!









JIM N

Thanks Jim.. as I said in my original post,I have done all that. The battery is 100% and all connections are perfect. The fault is definitely in the motor. It does start with a push!
IW Martin

UPDATE..

The field windings are shot.
Much sparking from this area when connected to battery and starter body has a hot spot.

New starter motor ordered, so will park on hills for the next few days.

No shortage of hills here.
IW Martin

Sounds a bit like the through bolts holding the starter together are shorting out on the field windings or the brush wiring to me or the wiring in that area could be earthing on the case, I'd pull the end off again and check that everything has clearance as it goes together
Maybe pull one thru bolt out and give it a try ,if it's still the same reassemble and try the other---just to try and pinpoint if that is an issue

willy
William Revit

I believe that a late 70s midget starter fits the XPAG/XPEG engines.

More readily available at Halfords.
P G Gilvarry

Sorry Pete,
the staff in Halfords just have a blank expression on their faces if you even mention the words "ignition points". I think they would faint if you wanted a part for a 40 year old car.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Willy.... almost the first thing I tried.
The field windings are done for. I think it is the original starter for the car, in which case it does not owe me anything.
New one winging on its way even as we speak.
Thanks .
IW Martin

Hi Bill,

Sorry to hear about your woes. You could have borrowed my starting handle or even my starter but as you know I am in Tuscany at the moment. I hope you are able to get the TD to the Arran Car Show on Sunday. There will be plenty of help for a push start. I hope you have bought a reconditioned starter motor and not just the field windings. The large, countersunk screws that secure the field pole pieces are impossible to remove without special tools. You can do it in a drill press with a large screwdriver blade held in the chuck and a long tommy bar in one of the chuck key holes. The trick is to force the screwdriver blade into the screw slots as you loosen them.

Good luck,

Jan
J Targosz


Yes, if your bad starter is an original with correct numbers, recommend you hold on to it and have a starter rebuild shop replace the field coil. Originals are becoming hard to find.
Richard Cameron

Hello Jan,
I have ordered a complete new starter from B&G which they can only deliver to the mainland. I will have to get the ferry and blag a lift home ,pick it up and return later then fit said starter to car. In the meantime, car will start down the hill,and as you say there will be plenty of bodies on Sunday at the show to gve me a push. Regarding the old starter,I do not really care about originality, as long as the new one does the job, nobody sees it, so the old one will be going in the skip.
Hopefully the judges at the show will not notice the hole where the starter should be!
Enjoy Tuscany Bill
IW Martin

You could get a bump start and not shut it off.

At least my wife got a laugh out of it.
JIM N

Don't bin it. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Has to have lots of usable parts even if the field windings are toast. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

The car starts easily with a push (bump start), however the ferry company don't take kindly to the engine left running during a crossing.
OK, I won't bin it, I will turn it into a garden ornament or bedside light instead.
IW Martin

Definitely keep the original. Donate or sell it at a show or something. Someone may be searching for a correct date coded case, and likely the end plates and armature are good. George
George Butz III

This thread was discussed between 20/06/2019 and 22/06/2019

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