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MG TD TF 1500 - Starter question
I have taken off of the old Metropolitan engine, that I've removed, the starter with the intention of putting it on the XPAG going back into the car. the starter has the following on it:-
25022 5 58
Since the Metro engine is from 58 it is probably the original.... my question is this going to be backwards compatible and fit on my XPAG as is?
|Rod Murray 54TF 3006|
|Rod, The Td starter motor is the "inboard drive" type (the pinion meshes with beveled edge of the flywheel) and has 10 teeth. The pinion out-of-mesh clearance, between the leading edge of the pinion and the leading edge of the flywheel should be 1/16" to 3/16". You cannot use the "outboard drive" arrangement with the Td, if that is what you are asking, Cheers Phil|
|Hi Phil et al: are you saying that this 58 starter is an outward type and therefore not usable? The gear on mine, has 9 teeth on it rather than the 10 you specify. The starter have looks identical to the one on Dave's website|
|Rod Murray 54TF 3006|
|Rod, If the starter drive is the same as Dave's, with the pinion moving towards the starter motor than it is the correct "inboard" type. However, the pinion should have 10 teeth, as the flywheel ring gear has 120 teeth for a pinion to flywheel ratio of 12 - 1, which would be correct. How many teeth are on the pinion of your existing TD's starter? Can you post a picture of the 58 Metro starter? Phil|
|Rod, I have a spare starter off an "A" that I recently rebuilt beside me right now- all numbers the same as yours, except this one is 1 60 rather than 5 58,which is the month/year of manufacture. 99% sure all of the 25022's are orignal to the TD/TF and exactly the same. George|
|George, The only thing that concerns me about the TA starter is, I believe ring gear on the TA has a lot less teeth, than the TD, which means the pinion might not be compatible. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I know you have extensive knowlege of these things. Cheers Phil|
|Phil - I suspect George means an MGA, not an MG TA. Tom|
|MGA,not TA. Sorry about that-I've never seen a TA starter, so no clue about it! George|
|Hi Rod. Been there done that. I had the starter on the TD go out on a long trip the only starter I could get was a MGA starter. The major difference is that the T series starter has the heads of the screws holding the unit together on the same end as the electrical connection and on the MGA the heads of the screws are on the end where the pinion is. You have to do one of two things to fit the MGA starter. Grind the flash in the block where the starter is fitted to clear the head of the screw or grind the head of the screw partially off to clear the flash. IF I was at home I would have ground off the flash in the block, however I was sitting in a parking lot and all I had was the file in my leatherman. It took over an hour to file off enough of the head of the screw to get the starter to fit. It is still in the car doing a good job and its been over four years.|
|Butch, The starter you got was either for a very late MGA (not sure about this), and has been sold as a "replacement" for the TD/TF and all A's for years. You are exactly right about having to grind the screw heads down. The 25022 is the original one for all TD/TF/and I'm pretty sure MGAs '58-60, with the screws at the comutator end. George|
|Just researched this more- the So. Cal Vintage MG club also lists a 25079 and a 25149 starter for later TDs/TF. I still think they are all the same style? Anyone else have any clue? George|
|Starters - how long is a piece of string ????|
The original TD / TF starter had a cast pinion end bracket and the pinion was retained by screw type end cap with a split pin together with a band around the brushes. The body was an M35 with the date stamped in casing. These starters were produced with expensive windings which is why many are still working 60 years on - the modern replacement Sprite / midget / Spitfire will fit and work but the body / connections is different and many do not last out the 1 year warranty.
Suffice if you want originality you know who to call.
|A starter from an MG Midget will also fit, and it is a lot less expensive,,, the same modification must be made to the bolt head as Butch states above... |
Many thanks for the input from you all! A fellow member of this board was kind enough to check the number of teeth on a spare starter from a TD2 that he has (thank you George!) and it seems that his has 9 teeth as well so it looks as though all is well!
Many Thanks All
|Rod Murray 54TF 3006|
|Rod, The pinion part #148-800, for your TD starter has 10 teeth. A 9 tooth pinion might appear to be working but will eventually chew up your flywheel ring gear over time. Call Moss Motors to confirm this. (800-667-7872) Cheers Phil|
|To echo Butch Taras' reply: A month ago, I removed the starter on my TD, as part of the general tidy up and repaint of the engine compartment. In doing so I noticed the lower bolt was loose but put that down to use. When I'd repainted the starter and came to refix it, I found it wouldn't seat properly in the block, with the lower half stubbornly standing proud.|
I eventually realised that the lower of the 2 screws on the starter was being obstructed so I used the Dremel to grind down the rough metal on the casting in that area. It took a while but it eventually seated OK.
It's made me realise 2 things:
1. I haven't got a standard starter (this thread has now confirmed what that starter may be)
2. It must have run since the PO's rebuild in 1978 with the starter seated at an angle and hanging by more-or-less only one bolt.
|Tom Bennett - 53TD 24232|
This thread was discussed between 18/06/2010 and 21/06/2010
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