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MG TD TF 1500 - Starter - spins slowly and stops

I believe that I need to have the starter rebuilt on my '55 TF-1500. What do you think?

It made a short low speed whirring noise a couple of days ago, then would not spin. It was not locked against the flywheel. The Facet fuel pump stops ticking when I pull the start button, so I'm sure that the starter is drawing amps.

I pulled it out ... the first time that I have ever had a starter in my hands - so I'm definitely a newbee. The armature shaft moves in and out 0.010" and moves side to side 0.006" measured at the end cap. To my inexperenced touch, it feels like the armature has more friction when turning than it should - at least it has more than a generator. The brushes seem to still have some carbon on them.

I painted and installed it again, foolishly hoping that it would work. Same problem.

The starter is the correct model: Lucas M36G (with a "1" after the model #). Service #25079H. Build date 1 67. It's not the original starter, but I want to stay with a Lucas M36G.

Click this link for a video of the play in the armature.
http://s149.photobucket.com/user/lonnieinorlando/media/MG/MG-Engine/StarterArmMovementMedRez.mp4.html

> What do you think is my problem?
> Will a "modern day" auto electric shop be able to rebuild it correctly?
> Should I send it to a shop that specializes on Lucas starters?
> Anyone want to sell a Lucas M36G, service #25022 with a build date a little before the build date of my car ... 23-Sep-1954?

Thanks for your help,

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie,

I had a local shop rebuild my starter. Mine was replaced in 1960 which was fine by me since it tells a little history of the car.

This is where I had mine done. I'm sure you may be able to find someone local down there.

http://www.chelmsfordautoelectric.com/



Frank Cronin

Lonnie,

With a good battery your starter should turn like the dicking - You would need to have a good hold of it.

That is about as much end play as mine has. So I would not be too bothered about that. Side motion shows the bronze bushings have ware.
I would recommend you disassemble it and put in new bushings anyway,
You could take just the armature to an electrical shop and have them test it for shorts or opens and if necessary skim the commutator.
If you get new brushes (recommended) as well remember to bed them in onto the armature. Apply a strip of emery cloth to the armature and install the new brushes, then rotate the armature till the brushes conform to the radius of the commutator surface. Clean everything well after doing this.
If the armature is shot it would be easier to just buy a new starter I think.

Rod
R. D. Jones

Lonnie,

I'm sure you have found in the archives that a newer MG midget starter available from your FLAPS works fine.

SPW
Steve Wincze

The starter in your videois not the original type TF starter. The original end plate is totally different, the correct and original drive is held on by a threaded, castellated nut with a cotter pin, etc. It should be part # 25022(0?). You have one of the later types, so personally I wouldn't waste any $ on rebuilding that one. Also, two original starter carcasses I have are marked 35G, not 36. George
George Butz

Thanks, guys -

I'll ask for recommendations for rebuilders at the British Car Breakfast Club meeting tomorrow morning.

Frank - I agree that replacement parts help tell the history of our cars.

Rod - I'd like to do the work myself, but pressing bearings and cutting armatures is beyond my comfort level, plus it would take me six months to accomplish the job that a shop can do in a one week turn-around.

Steve - I saw your suggestion for MG Midget starters in threads in the archives when I was searching for info. That will be my fall back option.

George - OOPS. I made a typo on the model number of my starter. It is indeed a M35G starter - not M36G. The TD-TF WSM states specifies Lucas Model M35G, Serv #25022. So eventhough my starter was built in 1967 with a different service number, I'll have it rebuilt or try to find one with a build date shortly before my car was built on 23-Sep-1954.

Thanks again to all of you and to the archives.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Sounds like a dead battery. Stick a good one in.
JRN JIM

Jim -

Yep - you nailed it.

The battery was the first thing that I checked when the starter wouldn't spin. I hooked up a batt charger. It showed near full charge and came up to full charge pretty fast. But I didn't check the voltage before I did so.

I read your post right before I was going to the garage to remove the starter. So I checked the voltage just to be sure. Less than 10v. Batt charger brought it to 12.7v in just a few minutes.

Checked for amperage between the batt and batt cable that was not attached to battery. No leakage.

Engine slugglishly turned over. Batt voltage is dropping.

Good news times three -
1) Starter appears to be OK
2) I don't have to remove it again
3) The new paint on the starter looks good.

I'll remove the battery that is in my '54 pickup and istall it in the TF today, then look for a battery next week.

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

I hope your '54 pick up has been converted from 6 to 12 volts.
David
D. Sander

I had the starter fail in my TD. Bought a new starter, and the Auto Electric shop charged me $25 more to switch all the "new" parts into the old housing. So I now have a new starter, with new armature etc, sitting in the original housing. Looks like nothing has been done to it. I was surprised to find that all the parts are interchangeable.

This may be an option as well.
C.R. Tyrell

Success! The starter spins like a champ with my truck battery.

David - Yep, a previous owner converted the truck to 12v.

CR - Great idea about switching the guts in the two starters. Ken Warner at Classic Generator in Midlothian, TX built a 12v generator for my truck using an original Delco 6v case and tags. Looks perfect. But for a lot more than $25.

George - I'll do some research on Lucas starters tomorrow. I believe that Lucas listed my starter (serv #25079) as a replacement for TD starters with service #25022. Original TFs starters also had serv #25022.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

This thread was discussed between 04/07/2014 and 05/07/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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