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MG TD TF 1500 - Steering wheel center color

The MG logo on my steering wheel center was cracked.
The boss seemed to be in good condition.
I kept looking on eBay for a better one but most were worse than mine.

I purchased one from Brown and Gammons. About 75 with shipping.

However the color of the boss varies significantly from mine. (Original on the right.)

Neither one matches much of anything, but perhaps the new one is closer to the new upholstery.

Does any member have an opinion on the subject?
Also if the older one is correct, how do I remove the MG logo to switch it?

Thanks?

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

Jim,

The new one looks very close to the correct color.

Jim
James Neel

Thanks Jim.
I was hopping for that!
Jim B.
JA Benjamin

The one on the left looks correct. Somewhere I read they were painted to match the dash center cluster, but not sure about that. The lovely yellow is just the bare plastic color of the originals. George
George Butz

George is correct.

Jim
James Neel

"I was hopping for that!"

Jumping for joy ? :-)

Indeed the yellowish plastic is the original material, but since you don't see the backside, the paint is all that matters. And the new paint looks right.

How did you fix the boss inside the Moto Lita hub ? In my hub, the stud with the screw was in the way.

Mike
Mike Fritsch

All TFs I have been exposed to the steering wheel centre matches the instrument cluster panel, I think that is a TD in the image.

Apologies for the image quality, it was shot for another purpose.


Graeme


G Evans

Some seem to be made of that yellowish plastic and others are brown Bakelite. Was there a particular year that a change in materials was made?
J K Barter

Graemes photo shows the exact color of my hub and cap and is the same color of my instrument cluster. PJ
Paul S Jennings

Jim,
slip a blade under the chrome trim and gently prise off, only friction tabs holding it.
DONT push through the two holes you will damage the badge as it is coloured on the reverse side.(you know how I know!!!!)
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Ray is correct Jim, especially about the DONT! Still trying to figure out how or if I touch it up. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Unfortunately once you scratch it there is really no way to fix it, unless you got lucky and only scratch the part that was applied first. Its done in reverse. Add to that the chrome you cannot apply with any paint. I am not sure how the chromed the lettering and octagon.

I think generally the centers match the instrument cluster panel but within a certain tolerance. For example the Moss ones do seem to match the TF cluster but they appear to light in color for TD's. And I have seen TD clusters that were lighter or darker by a little bit from the steering wheel center.
Christopher Couper

Peter

You have mail.

Graeme
G Evans

and then there is this... after I sanded off the black paint I had to do something.


Dave Braun

Looks really pretty & very original Dave. If you're that way inclined all you need now is an original wheel, a can of Phosphor Bronze & you've got yourself a prize winning show car! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

My TF is fitted with a woodrim steering wheel. It was made by Mangoletsi rather than motolita and had the original wheel's bakelite centre. This looked rather bulky and I have replaced it with an aluminium disk and one of the wheel disc badges. I attach a photo.

Jan T


J Targosz

Should I bother to get my new or old center sprayed to match the instrument cluster?

thanks to all.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim: You should have one machined and then engine turned :-)

Of course its whatever you want it to be. Same color as instrument cluster is more original but these cars, and yours too, were highly modified from the get go. Since you are not doing a perfect original restoration, do what you like. What you have is not that far off anyway.

I painted mine the same and I like a darker color than the Moss paint as it matches my original steering wheel that I have tucked away better.


Christopher Couper

Sorry gents I am going to raise the confusion goal posts even higher on this subject.

The original centre piece MG emblem, I mislayed during assembly of my TF steering wheel, is gold lettering on a beige/yellow background.

The replacement I purchased is chrome lettering on a silver/white background. When I do a search in the "Anglo Parts" catalog which has colour images I am seeing the same colour combination.

Other images on the various MG restoration posts are difficult to define the colours.

Could the originality gurus please make a ruling on what would be correct.

Thanks

Graeme
G Evans

This one is spot on for both TD's and TF's. From the famous unrestored TF9052 captured by Frank Cronin.

Note the darker color than the Moss paint.




Christopher Couper

Christopher

Thanks for your reply. I know that different computer monitors will interpret colours differently and also colour prints are not always a true representation.

I refer you to Pages 88 and 90 of "Original MG T Series by Clausager". Unless my eyes are playing tricks what I am seeing in the photos are images of wheel centre badges with gold MG letters and octagon surrounds. This is very obvious when you make the comparison against the silver wheel spokes.

The differences in colour are not as apparent in the image in your post.

The background paint is definitely darker than the replacement badge that I purchased however not as dark as my original item. Maybe the Aussie sun has had an influence.

Result is that I am more confused then ever.

Graeme

G Evans

The letters will reflect the colours around them. My letters are silver although they are reflecting the red seats. The colour between the letters is cream on my badge.
My plastic surround has been repainted but the alloy wheel hub is still in its factory paint (as is the instrument panel behind).

Matthew.


M Magilton

Graeme,

Originally the TFs(and I suspect TDs as well)had silver
lettering in the MG centre badge with cream background.

With age,the letters developed a 'gold tinge' on some cars however,they were a silver tone originally.On my computer screen,TF9052 also has 'silver' badge lettering.
I believe the Factory or its supplier,used a vacuum type process to apply the colour to the lettering and cream background.

As per usual,Matt.Magilton's TF is correct.My current TF has the same badge and similar colour badge holder
piece.

Incidentally,there is a circular, rubber spacer ring (squared section) placed between the centre badge and the base of the holder. Often missing.

Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
R GRANTHAM

Chris, I recall that the cluster/wheel boss color is different for TD vs TF. I suspect my source is the NEMGTR T series handbook, I'll try to find that reference at some point. We have to remember that the paint is very old by now, and not likely the same color it was when new either. I agree that the MG letters were silver/chrome or something, not gold. George
George Butz

Matthew/Rob

Thanks for your posts, what I have in my possession must be a chip of "Lasseters Lost Reef", the letters and octagon surround are definitely gold.

Image attached.

My research has not revealed any phenomena that alters the colour of chrome objects other than a replating process.

You can be assured this TF will reveal yet another anomaly.

Graeme



G Evans

Stripped out ten(10) TF steering wheels over about thirty years,all lettering was a chrome finish.Silver
is probably not a good description,however definately a
perfect chrome look! TFs,no doubt the chrome look lettering originally.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to all.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos).
R GRANTHAM

G Evans: Funny but I looked at page 89 and 90 and see the same as the images we have posted above within tolerances. :-)

Note that the book you reference actually has terrible pictures. They are of restored cars that in many cases are not original.

As Rob and Matthew and others point out the emblem is chrome octogon and letters on a cream (read off white) background. The reason it looks yellow in many photos or actual emblems is because of yellowing. The cream color darkened over time. I have have an original one tucked away that is really yellowed. It looks just like your image, but it was decades ago quite a bit lighter.

I cannot tell why your letters are gold. Perhaps your plastic has yellowed which makes the chrome appear gold? That would also account for a lot of the darkening and yellowing of the background which you have.
Christopher Couper

I carefully pried off the old, cracked, pressed in MG Crest, from the original center and under the crest was a portion of the original color.
It appears to be a bit rosier, and perhaps closer to my newly painted instrument cluster than the new one from B&G. (See attached)
My Cluster wan NOT painted with Moss paint.
If I wanted to spend another $100 I am sure the body shop has some of that color left.

But picking up on Chris' comment:
"Jim: You should have one machined and then engine turned :-)"
Which I am sure was tong in cheek, I laid out a fabricated center section.
It would have a coffin type octagon and Raised MG letters. That way I wont touch the existing center.
I don't know about engine tuning yet.
The pattern on the dash is too large to fit the center.

I also found a 4" Aluminum Blank 1-11/16 thick on eBay for $7.

For now look at is as "Coming Soon".



JA Benjamin

JA. It was sort of tongue and cheek but also serious. I think it would be kind of cool looking with all the other engine turned stuff.
Christopher Couper

I just unpacked the centerpieces I had in my parts cupboard - all 3 of them show a different color

The left one definitely is silver on black, the middle one (which came from my original wheel) is "light" gold on cream, the right one came form an older hub and shows a much stronger gold and darker cream background. The epoxy on the right one is pretty cracked and aged, so that could just be the reason that makes it look darker.

I can imagine the right ones having being similar at some point, the left one is cleary different, so it may have come from a different car.

Rgds, Mike



Mike Fritsch

Jim,
I am particularly interested in your aluminium dashboard, since I planned to make one for my 1953 TD. Can you tell us how you did it? Did you buy a machined aluminium plate? Didi you polish it yourself?
I would be very happy to read your détailler advice. I apologise for my poor English!
Thank you for your reply.
Best regards,
Claude (from Switzerland)
C.M. groucho

Chris Couper, what does "engine turned" mean?" I'm not familiar with that phrase...

Jim, I chose an alternative hub to better fit with my wheel.... a piece of turned burl maple.


Geoffrey M Baker

That is very nice indeed !
Mike
Mike Fritsch

Damn you, Geoffrey.

You've now just cost me hours upon hours of bloody woodworking.

;)
Kevin McLemore

Engine turned:

Stolen from another website:
The process of polishing known as engine turning, swirling or jewelling dates back into the 1800's. Engine turning or jewelling is a process of polishing stainless steel or other metal items with small overlapping swirls that form a moiré pattern. This jewelled pattern creates a dazzling finish that reflects light and makes the surface seem alive. Probably the most famous application of engine turning can be seen on the cowling of Lindbergh’s “Spirit of St. Louis”.


Frank Cronin

.


Frank Cronin

Really Kevin? Then this will drive you totally nuts... the complete wheel...
:)


Geoffrey M Baker

Claude (from Switzerland)

The dash is Stainless. I did not make it. It came, originally, from Moss Motors.
It is in a circa. 1966 catalog I have.
I got it on eBay about 5 years ago.
At that point, within a few weeks two showed up. I believe I payed about $150 for it.
I have been aware for this (period) accessory since I got the TD back in 1966 or 65, and always wanted one.
The seller stated that the owner wanted to return the dash to the "original" configuration.

Now it is possible to do this your self. (Following dimensions are from my TD.) Start with a dowel or rod of the correct diameter II measure about 3/4") . Punch out a large group of "dots" from Si.C wet or dry sand paper.
(I am guessing around 400 to 600 grit but you will need to test this) These should match the diameter of the rod.
Cut a piece of wood as long and as wide as the dash.
Repeatedly notch the edges of the wood at a repeating distance distance. Mine seem to repeat at 5/8"

Now secure the metal to a block of wood.
On a drill press add another piece of wood with a pin to engage the notches and a guide wood to set the narrow dimension.
Chuck the dowel with sandpaper. On the first row, align the dowel to be half over the edge. Bring the dowel down and just touch the metal to make the pattern. Index one step touch again, repeat, repeat, to the end.
Now you must move the guide piece exactly the stepping distance. You could have also drilled holes in the bottom board and put pins in the guide piece to do this.
Start a new row.
I would suspect that with SS coating flooding the metal with lubricant would help and extend the life of the Si.C dots. I would use mineral spirits.

I will be trying this on my steering wheel center in the near future.


Geoffrey

I do have a nice piece of burl that I was considering but I now have a good hunk of Al to work with.
JA Benjamin

I am attaching the section out of the Moss Catalog.
Note that Generator covers, Steering wheel spoke covers, gas tank side covers and Threshold plates were also available.
I also have a set of threshold plates (Installed).


JA Benjamin

Very pretty, Geoffrey!

I gotta say, though, I'm more of a 'thin wheel' man... I think they make the car look lighter and more lithe. Think "Leston".

Kevin McLemore

Kevin, I was planning on a thin wheel.... but when it got to the thickness you see in the picture, it just felt so good in my hands. I have big fat hands, perhaps that's why. So I stopped there!
Geoffrey M Baker

Just for fun I went back and looked in my '77-'78 Moss catalogs (ed. 18) and those items were still available. Jud
J K Chapin

Jim,
I really appreciated your answer. Unfortunately, the aluminium dashboard does not figure anymore on recent Moss catalogues. If I am lucky enough to find one on Ebay, I will sure jump on it provided the price is reasonable. In fact, I already tried to machine turn a small aluminium sheet with a drill press. The result is not too bad, but the cercles were to close to each other. I'll have to repeat the test wtih wider spaces between each "dot".
Thanks to all of you guys, your knowledge is precious....
C.M. groucho

I have been working on Chris' suggestion for some time know.
The weather has been rotten anyway.
This is Plan "B".
Plan A was too large and chunky.
The center is a (modified) Hubcap center from Moss.
(Similar to the approach of Jan T.)
Its 25 years old so I am not sure the ones today are the same.
I do have a set of original ones I will be using.
I did turn the O.D. round to the same 1-1/2 diameter as the insert in the factory hub.

I have not done the engine turning yet.

First I would like group opinion on several things.

(First) The outer bevel. Is it too small? At this point I can enhance it. In my first attempt it was way too large.
As it stands I am not sure how the engine turning will work. The turnings on the dash are 3/4" That is too large for the hub. I am thinking more in the 1/2" range.

(Second) The color fill around the "MG" logo. Leave it red or return it to the golden tan of the original hub?

I still need to ad the securing post. If I want to change back it will only take one screw.

Thanks

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

I think you need a side view to answer the first question

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

I would leave the red, it looks sharp. 1/2 is better for the smaller space.

The other bevel looks good but I would think the thickness would be better slimmer. Perhaps the thickness of the bevel area? More like a cap.

So maybe 1/2" total thickness? Just guessing here.
Christopher Couper

I agree, it still looks chunky. Its the same thickness as the factory one now. I am thinking that a deeper bevel would reduce the chunky look but I could turn it down. (but with a lot of work.) Right now its 7/8". 3/4 or 5/8 is possible.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

This thread was discussed between 15/12/2014 and 22/02/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

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