MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Stripped frame of my restoration-some observations

As an update - see thread in archive 1954 MG TF The Journey Begins, the frame has been completely disassembled.

The engine has been completely rebuilt. I painted it using Bill Hirsch MG Maroon. Great paint by the way and is a great match when you compare to protected areas of the original. I painted the valve cover silver that was used on the early Knucklehead Harley Davidsons that has very fine metal flake. I figured I would go vintage... and I ceramic coated the exhaust header from Swain Tech coatings. This coating is white and I think is a close match to the white aluminized coating they did at the factory. It really looks great against the red engine. With the help of this board, I used Tom Lange's hardware and brass core plugs. SU carbs rebuilt by Joe Curto, Len's roller camshaft kit was installed, distributor rebuilt and recurved by Jeff from Advanced. Jeff said I had a very interesting distributor that he believed it could have been a prototype. Early manufacturer date stampings but all the characteristics of the body for the TF. Something the factory took off the shelf he assumed. Still waiting for the oil pump rebuild and water pump assembly but I know I will be very pleased with the results.

The front horns to the frame where the front bumpers are mounted to have been straightened. The chassis was put on a chassis table that is completely flat and we took measurements. Left side was bent up ½” inch and off center about a ¼”. The metal here is pretty thin so it didn’t take much to get it back to the original dimensions per the manual with the torch. In case you are wondering, the short story is in 1984 my younger brother who was an underage driver found my keys to my '70 Olds and decided to do burnouts forward / reverse in the driveway. Not sure what happened but the Olds went thru the garage door and smashed the left fender thus bent the horn to the frame. A very bad memory but it is fixed now.... The rest of the frame looks great and hardly any major rust. All parts to the chassis will be dipped chemically to remove all paint and rust and will come out of the tank all brand new.

I figured I would share so observations while taking off parts. I was always under the impression that the whole chassis was satin black.

All parts were washed in an industrial parts washer, 160 degree F hot water, and detergent to remove oils and dirt. This revealed the color under all that grime.

My front springs are defiantly not satin black as found in protected areas of the frame but either semi gloss or gloss black. This also includes the lower control arms, Lucas windtone horns, steering rack assembly, steering column, and brake back plates. The brake back plates I still have the DM7 stencil so they were not replaced at a later time.

In addition, my fan is gloss black and the Volks air cleaner is also gloss black which is well known that they were always like that.

Not trying to stir debate that this is right and this is wrong. So please don't flame me. It's basically an original car that my grandad purchased in '57.

Just figured I would share since I know you like to know information of points of originality and the factory didn't have strict quality control and used parts that were available.

I will post pics once the engine is on the frame.

I've reached a major milestone and now the only direction is "frame up"!

Best,

Frank

Frank Cronin

Frank. Great write up. Keep it up. As for flaming. Don't think you will get much here. Most of us that havd been on the site have an understanding that when it comes to what is "original" there are definitely areas were correct is not a single point.

It has been reported on a number of occasions that the factory used what was available. Pretty much, the line kept moving and the cars got built with what they had. I have read a story from one of the workers that said if they ran out of a paint, they would go buy something to use and there was no real issue with using something that was different.
Bruce Cunha

Well... here's an update. Worked my tail off this past week to get to where it sits now... FINALLY she sits on all four wheels. My goal was to get more things completed and maybe get her to start for the first time in 26 years. That will be another day but I can't complain with the results.

I think it is important to begin with is that what I have here is from all the help from this forum. I have all the "restoration books" but nothing compares to this forum with all the knowledge people have here and the attention to detail for originality. I spend more time here on this forum reading the archives to just soak up more knowledge to make my restoration done right.

I will start a little "picture trail" but here I would like to introduce you to "Ashley".

Frank



Frank Cronin

The frame and all parts attached to the chassis I painted gloss black. I hand painted all the exposed bolts. The engine I used Bill Hirsch MG Maroon. Great paint by the way. I painted the whole engine red even though it was tough to do with all that aluminum on there. I left only the gearbox remote cover natural finish. To get close to the white aluminized factory header coating I used Swain Tech Coating White Lighting ceramic coating. I also used them to ceramic coat the short pipe from the header to the exhaust. The Bell SS Exhaust was painted with a high temperature satin black.

The valve color I used my Harley connections who restores vintage HD's and used a silver paint that was used on the old "Knucklheads." Silver/grey with no metallic.




Frank Cronin

.


Frank Cronin

Really looking great, Frank. Keep up the good work. Bud
Bud Krueger

Pully and plate to the Dynamo painted engine color. Purolator oil filter canister painted (close match) "silver green" like on the Austin Healy engines and Purolator decal like the original applied slightly "canted" like the one originally before I media blasted it. I also painted the oil line block to head engine color. Distributor rebuilt and recurved by Jeff from Advanced. Should be dialed in real nice with Len's roller lifter kit.


Frank Cronin

Hi Frank,

Very nice work on the TF chassis.Great standard.I like your point re the semi gloss-gloss paint as well.

The Purolator Decal with correct oil canister colour is also pure class!

Cheers and congratulations.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Here is a close up of the oil cap. Since cad plating is difficult to get nowadays, the soft zinc plating is a close match and I can bring my parts to the next town and 24hr turnaround.

Took apart the oil cap and I soft zinc plated the cover and the chain and nickel plated the knob. Put a new gasket on and delicately repainted the stencil.


Frank Cronin

The dynamo I even did a treatment of soft zinc to the condenser and screws. It looks like new like it did as dated 10-53. I am insane...


Frank Cronin

When cleaning all the years of grime I noticed there was a stencil on the brake back plate DM7. I guess this was to let the installer on the assembly line know that Ferrodo DM7 style brake liners were to be used. I brought a photo of mine to a sign company and he made them EXACTLY they were on the wheel. He made a stencil that I could stick on back plate and dabbed some white paint with a sponge paint brush. These were probably hand stamped back then. I positioned them just like they were before I media blasted them away forever....




Frank Cronin

A close up.


Frank Cronin

Everyone's seen this one. I think only this forum brought up that there is a TD or a TF stencil on the rear axle. A close exact copy of the original with the "imperfections" of the hand stamp from 60 years ago in Abington as best I could.

Anyone who wants these stencil's, email me and I will send you a copy.


Frank Cronin

Difficult to see but when I took the brake lines off there was a P clip to secure the brake line. The bolt to the rear shock this P clip is attached to. I soft zinc'd this. I kept the brake lines natural finish and reused all the original straps to wrap around the axle.

You can see a from the spare tire carrier the spray of the grey paint going to be used on the body.




Frank Cronin

This is a better pic of the grey.... Very sexy color.

"Grey is the new black"


Frank Cronin

I can't count how many times I handled this exhaust hanger and I didn't notice until yesterday when I was painting them. I am re-using the exhaust hangers that were on the car since they are in excellent shape. I don't know if this is factory or a later BMC replacement part later in the car's life but I thought the "F" in Firestone was really cool.




Frank Cronin

A couple more pictures and I'm done.

I know I've read about poor replacement parts and this one is the front motor mount. The motor mount height is too shallow thus the tight fit between the steering column and engine mount bracket. I read in the archives going back to 2003 and they still haven't got it right. Really?? Looks like I will be adding a spacer to get the correct height.


Frank Cronin

Last one. I hope no one is on "dial up" LOL

Long day to get where I am right now but I wanted to see how the SU carbs looked on the car. Joe Curto restored the carbs. He does great work. I guess I just wanted to see more "bling" before calling it a night.

Thanks,

Frank




Frank Cronin

Frank. Your work looks real nice.

Do you have a photo of the DM7 stencil before you stripped the backing plate?

Also did your rear end have the TF stencil on it or are you just responding to images you have seen with TD or TF on a rear end?
Chris Couper

Hi Chris.

Both stencils to the rear axle and brake back plates were on the car. Couldn't see them at first since the whole underneath of the car was filthy with grime, dirt, and oil. After cleaning, this is what I have. Pictures to be attached.

The color of the stencil looks "yellowish" --- lack of a better color word. Chose white since it was the most obvious choice probably back then and I'm sure time, exhaust, grease, oil deteriorated the original paint.


Frank Cronin

..


Frank Cronin

,,,,


Frank Cronin

Frank,
I would love a copy of the "TF" stensel.
Thanks,
-David
D. Sander

Hi:

Your attention to detail is fantastic. I would like a copy of the TF stencil too.

Thanks,
Sherman
Sherman Kaplan

Hi Frank,
You mentioned a chain on the oil filler cap. It has probably been asked many times before but should TF's have a chain and where should it attach. My cover has one and the chain has been anchored to the tappet cover with a TEK screw. I was going weld up the hole and get rid of the chain but don't know what is original.

Very nice car by the way, how far along is the bodywork?
Max Irvine

Hi Max,

Yes! Originally RHD TFs had a chain
attached to the cap and it was then connected to a large flat headed,SOLID,aluminium
rivet on the rocker cover.The 'tail' of this rivet is well peened over on the inside of the rocker cover.

The Factory TF Handbook does not depict the chain,however the more accurate TF Service and Parts Manual certainly does! The Handbook
has many omissions or incorrect drawings like the above.

The rivet used to vibrate loose over many years of vehicle use.

I am not sure if TDs had a chain but I suspect so.

Cheers.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Very nice work Frank. The detail is amazing.

I think the front motor mount and the carrier have been at odds for a long time. Some time in the 70’s or earlier (I've had him since '79) the front carrier got about 1/4 inch sliced off the edge to better clear the steering column. This allowed the engine to be positioned vertically and as a result, the intake runner on the TD was never carved up to clear the bonnet side. I never understood the modification until I rebuilt the car and realized how tight all this was on a LHD car.

Warmly,
Dave
Dave Braun

All cars had chains on their oil filler caps. Very early TD's did not have a stud on the valve cover. You won't find a stud or hole. For those cars the chain was attached to the front side bolt.

Most TD's and TF's have a special stud as Rob describes.

Rob: My stud is steel. If some of the studs were aluminum, which is highly possible, and the valve covers were put in a hot tank (normally used to clean blocks and other cast engine parts), it would have eaten the aluminum away. So that's another possible reason why they are missing and a small hole is all that's left on some cars.

I see no evidence that the factory covered the chain with rubber or plastic. The chain was CAD plated and best I can tell both the cap and its top were nickel plated.
Chris Couper

Fantastic attention to detail, Frank, thank you for sharing. I am anxious to see the grey paint on the body and wings.
Jack Long

Chris,

I agree that the Factory never covered the chain with rubber or plastic.However,it has been an 'add on' for many cars now to protect the rocker cover paint.

From my experience re rocker cover caps,the chain and the cap were Cadmium plated,whilst the finger hold top was nickel plated.The chain has quite small links.

TF rocker covers I have worked on over the years have had the aluminium rivet.As you say, the chemical baths used for erroneous chrome plating of the covers would possibly have eradicated the rivet!

The aluminium rivet probably made peening and sealing easier (compared to steel)and hence the change from the earlier models.

The Factory were pretty good at making changes after testing the prototype for a model.For example,the TF breather hoses from the rocker cover outlet to the carb.changed from the idea of using wire clips at this point to using Jubilee clips instead.The Jubilee type of clip was more efficent at stopping the oil leaking out.

Again,the wire clips are sketched in the Handbook but Jubilees are shown in the TF Service and Parts Manual.

Cheer.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Aramis").
Rob Grantham

Rob: I have oil caps that have shown nickel on the body too so I guess it was a suppliers prerogative :-)

My stud responds to a magnet so I know its steel. But again I bet aluminum was used too and maybe exclusive by the time the TF came about.

I am not sure when the Jubilee clamps came about but my 52 has them. The attached picture is from a 1950 and it has them too. My guess is only the prototype and a few very early cars had the wire clamps on the breather. But it also has strap clamps on the water main and we know later cars had wire clamps.

Note also this very early car did not have the stud and the chain was attached to the front side bolt. The car also has a nice short carb to carb fuel line but that's another story.





Chris Couper

Same set of pictures but this time from a 1953 car. Note the chain now attaches to a stud and the large hose has wire clamps. It looks like the breather still has Jubilee style though. And now the fuel line is longer too


Chris Couper

Rob and Chris, Thanks for the chain info. Rob, are you able to post a picture of the chain and rivet set up? I would like to make sure the hole in my tappet cover is in the correct place and that the chain is anchored as it should be.
Max Irvine

Max: Pictures 2 and 5.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/Unrestored/Thumbnails/mgtf_gallery_unrestored.htm
Chris Couper

This thread was discussed between 08/06/2013 and 27/10/2013

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.