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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Substitute Engine Compatibility

Fellas

Curious as to whether this has any credibility. It is being stated that a Morris 10 Block can be adapted to install in the T series.

Wonder what is involved and if any benefits would be gained.

G Evans

The Morris 10 block is almost identical to the TC and early TD "banana" blocks. The only big difference is that they have a smaller bore and are 1100cc. They can be bored to 1250cc but can not be bored to the oversizes which a 1250cc block can take.

The two other differences are cosmetic. One is that there is no MG motif cast under the generator. The other is that they have a different part number cast below the generator. Note that pre-war Morris 10 blocks are similar to the pre-war T-Type (TB) blocks in that they have no timing chain tensioner.

Bob
R L Schapel

The Wolsley engine is the one to look out for. I have fitted a cylinder head from one to my TF. The big advantage, which sounds perverse, is the small size of the valves and the low compression. This means the head has plenty of "meat" and is thus ideal for machining to TF/TD specs.


Jan T
J Targosz

The Morris 10 of the 1930s shared the engine with the TA, not the TD or early TD. In a TA, it is designated as MPJG.
Lew Palmer

As I remember there are actually TWO very different "Morris 10" engines. The early Morris 10 engine was the MPJM, a 1292cc engine almost the same as the MPJG engine used in the TA, and the MPJW engine in the Wolseley.

The later Morris 10 engine from 1938 on, the XPJM, was the 1140cc version that later evolved into the 1249cc XPAG.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Tom is right. The later pre-war engine is definitely similar to the T-Type. I have two in my shed.

Jan has a good point if the engine is to be fitted to a TF (or late round-holed TD I think). The Wolseley block is identical to 1250 TF apart from the dip-stick position. It even has the same part number (168???) cast below the generator. If the dip-stick is re-positioned properly, no-one could tell the difference.

Bob
R L Schapel

The only other difference Bob that I'm aware of is the cast MG emblem behind the generator. This is obviously missing from the Wolseley block. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thanks fellas was aware of the details on the XPAW. I am no longer a T Series owner, maybe these options may assist someone who cannot source an XPAG block.
G Evans

My original TF cylinder head had been skimmed a number of times and was below the minimum thickness. The Wolsley one which I had been given was even thicker than a standard EXPG one so the only problem was the number of fly cutter passes needed to give a suitable compression ratio. Similarly the valves and ports were smaller but again this gave plenty of latitude for machining. I used the valves from the TF head but fitted new guides with a groove to accept Mini seals.

Considering the age of EXPAG engines, and the number of times they have been rebuilt, I suspect many cylinder heads are approaching minimum thickness. Also the machining on my original head had been carried out on a milling machine and was not up to the standard that is produced on a modern dedicated head facing machine.

If you see a head for sale and it looks like an EXPAG but is painted green it is probably one of the Wolsley ones - buy it!

Jan T
J Targosz

There is no MG cast behind the generator on a TF block either.
Bob
R L Schapel

I did not know that Bob. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
What's this about a cast MG emblem? I can't find one on XPAG 23356. Am I looking in the wrong place?
Joe


Joe Olson

Hi Joe. No that's where the emblem is supposed to be. It is definitely there on early TD engines. As yours is a TD/2 perhaps later cars had a block without the emblem? I only just found out from Bob that the TF also doesn't have the cast MG emblem. I don't have a pic of a block with one but someone here will surely clarify. Tom? Chris? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/TD11272/Thumbnails/mgtd_gallery_thm_TD11272.htm Pic 102 shows the MG emblem. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Looking at the info provided by Bruce on the thread titled "Radiator Top Hose Clamp" it seems there were three different blocks used during the TD production run. The very early one with the ID on the flywheel housing, the one with the cast MG emblem behind the generator, (block casting number 24446) and the final iteration like Joe's and the 1250 TF blocks, which had no MG emblem at all. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Roger-Wilson-head-and-block-casting-numbers-v8.pdf
George Butz III

George the write-up identifies the early TD block as 24146 https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Roger-Wilson-head-and-block-casting-numbers-v8.pdf not the 24446 that is clearly shown in pic 102 on Chris' site. Obviously a typo? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

My memory is weak, but I seem to remember that up until about summer 1952, the various different users had distinctive castings - Wolesley, Morris or MG - but when they improved the cooling with round water passages, the TD2 engine, they did away with the individual casting identifiers and cast them all the same - without the MG logo. I believe all the later engines have the W logo.

If I am wrong, my apologies.

There are a good number of small errors in the various engine casting sources; Neil Cairns omits the TB casting entirely, for instance, and conflates other numbers.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

I believe engines from casting 168421 had no MG logo any more, and that the earlier 24445 was the last that did.

I have found this reference the best and most useful for engine casting numbers. Any corrections?:
https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2016/02/Roger-Wilson-head-and-block-casting-numbers-v8.pdf

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Peter, I think the casting number shown on pic 102 on Chris’s site shows a casting number of 24445, not 6, which would make the block pictured consistent with Roger Wilson’s text.

David
David Wardell

Thanks David. I mistook the 5 for a 6. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I like Roger Wilson's write up of related MG engines.

It was very gratifying to finally see a UK writer getting the TF1250 Cylinder Head No. right. TF1250s had the number 16842(5). As Roger has indicated,
the '5' was stamped, the other numbers cast in.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

As a (slight) aside to this thread, if anyone has photo of their block with the 24445 casting number, MG logo and MM in the diamond castling logo (not ‘W’), together with its engine number this would help in pinning down the move of casting the blocks from Coventry to Wellingborough.

Many thanks
David
David Wardell

There's something in my mind about horizontal oil filters and the Wellingborough casting mark. Can't check casting/production numbers at the moment though.
Just my 2 cts...

Nick (TD3232)

PS: just as an aside; I wonder if there are MG engines with the "Qualcast" casting mark. (Some Wolseley and Morris Minor engines have them)
Nick Herwegh

Thanks Tom Lange,
That reference you suggested is great. I only had basic knowledge of "banana" and "round hole" blocks. That reference has added heaps to my (limited) knowledge. This forum continues to impress!

Cheers from OZ
Bob
R L Schapel

While we are on the subject, has anyone ever seen a block with the large "X" shown here? It is an early TD 24146 block.

Many thanks.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair


t lange

Here's an image of a head with the stamped in '5': Bud


Bud Krueger

My understanding is that BMC decided to introduce the Wolsley 4/44 in the early 50's they decided to recast the XPAG block and use it in this car. For economical purposes this recast engine was used in the later MG TD but, so that the same casting could be used for both the Wolsley and the MG, the "MG" emblem was eliminated. As was expected the 4/44 sales far exceeded those of the MG. Unfortunately it proved under powered and many (most) of them ended up at the crushers. They were replace by the short lived Wolsley 15/50 and then with the very successful Magnette ZA. The 4/44 block was designated XPAW on the brass engine tag.
The only slight problem with using one of these blocks is re-positioning the dipstick hole. It is very difficult to get orientation of the new hole correct unless the block is set on a drill press with a tilting table, or in my case, a tilting arbor.
As an aside, I remember going to the Sydney Australia wrecking yards in the early 70's and seeing piles of 4/44 engines about to go to the recyclers as scrap. One day they were mostly gone and my understanding was that one of the MG dealers in Sydney bought the lot for, I think, $25 each.
Hugh Pite
H.D. Pite

Using a TC block as a pattern, I made a jig for drilling the dipstick hole correctly. The jig is made of heavy-walled steel tube and other bits of steel welded together. It bolts on to the sump gasket face with a couple of sump bolts. I can now use a hand-held drill, piloted through the tube, to get the correct angle.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

When watching some of the car restoration programmes such as Gas Monkey and Fantom Works engine swops are common. Sometimes they fit a Ford engine into a Chevy and do other cross manufacturer modifications. This simply does not happen with T Series cars. Many owners have fitted a 5 speed gear box, including me, but the only engine swop I hear about is taking a non original Volvo unit out of a TD and replacing it with an EXPAG. In the UK MG midgets are converted with engines from MG Fs (K Series) and even Ford Zetecs. I wonder why the EXPAG is sacrosanct?

Jan T
J Targosz

Hugh
$25 for an engine, It would want to be a good one, it'd be for all of them I reckon ----lol
Jan
I've got some bad news for you
Years ago here nearly every second T type had a Holden 6 in it and as Bob will know with Roger's weapon, Rover V8 engines have been known to live in them and still do-

willy
William Revit

Thought people might like to see this picture.

It's courtesy of Arthur Vowden and it's a Gold Seal replacement engine. Originally an XPAW engine and the round hole 168421 block, so it 'should' have no MG logo on it - or had it?

David


David Wardell

This thread was discussed between 15/03/2019 and 21/03/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.