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MG TD TF 1500 - Synthetic Oil

I am thinking of using synthetic oil in my MG's 2-A's and 1-TD and 100 Healey. Does anyone have any experience with it in their TD's? I understand that if there is a small leak it might leak more but I understand that the synthetic is a lot better for the engine and I woun't have to add ZDDPLUS to my oil changes.

Cheers,

David.....
David Honness

David,

I use Castro Synthetic 5w50 in my 52 TD with great success. I am following the recommendation of the EPO (Esteemed Previous Owner) who rebuilt the engin and kept it running like a watch for ten years. This suggestion will robably stimulate cries of doubt from our friends on the web but that's why I participate here. I love their screams of "you idiot".

Dick ThomaS
TD13583
Dick Thomas

During a recent rebuild of my engine, I looked into using a Synthetic oil after the start-up. Everyone I talked to recommended not to use it, unless I could be assured of a leak proof engine. It would appear that the synthetic will find the smallest leak and work it's way out. Having tried to "seal" previous engines very carefully [and not succeeded], I decided to stick with conventional oil. I recognize that the synthetic is a superior oil, but if it won't stay inside the block I can not see me using it in the TD. I do use it in my other car and am happy about it. Dick, I would never scream at someone who has success in it's use in their "T".
George Raham
TD4224
G. L. Raham

I used it in a 5 series bmw and seemed to double my oil consumption... changed back to regular oil and have been using Valvoline 20/50 in the TD. I also put in Lucas oil conditioner.
gblawson(gordon)

After my initial break in with conventional oil, I switched to Castrol Syntec 5-50 and have not observed any leaks, other than the post shutdown situation that plages most British engines. Haven't had to add any yet. I did find it hard to find as most auto shops in the area don't carry it. Also very clean looking. Bob
R.AF. Robert Finucane

George,
Success is relative. Now you have cast serious doubts on my confidence. Because my TD does leak and did when I got it from the EPO. My reaction has been "don't they all?". Apparently not. Now I face a quandry. Since I hate quandrys I'm going back to the Open.

Dick Thomas
Dick Thomas

Wait a minute - - are some of you saying that there are XPAGs out there that DON"T leak? I thought Dick was right. And, Dick, if I understand you correctly, are you saying your engine doesn't leak any more synthetic than it would or did leak "real" oil?

I suppose one could argue that even if rate of leakage was unchanged, the expense of it would go way up. But the aspect of David's question I would like to see answered is: does it lubricate better? I'm currently using Valvoline 20-50 VR1, reserving my inventory of 20-50 Castrol for transmission use in my Bs. And since B transmissions really don't leak, it's gonna be a long time before I use it up.

And... I've heard so much controversy on this issue, I'm not sure the VR1 is solving the problem. Nor is it yet clear to me if this is an issue for engines that are already thoroughly broken in. If synthetic oils will significantly add to XPAG engine life, might they perhaps be worth the leaking and expense?

Attached image: see my "rear engined" B/GT. (My latest XPAG). BTW, I drove this car about 700 miles with this engine, and the XPAG didn't leak a drop of anything! 8^)

Allen

PS: the XPAG didn't use any of the Marvel Mystery Oil either!


Allen Bachelder

By this time David in VA is wondering what is happening with his very simple question. David, my TD13583 has used Synthetic Castro 5W50 over it's last two years. I gave driven it 1500 miles and have only had to add one quart. The lubrication seems excellent. My TD leaks a little. Would it leak less if I switched oil? I don't know and probably will never know because I have no plans to switch.

With warm personal regards,
Dick Thomas
Dick Thomas

Thanks Guys,

I just wanted some more assurance about the synthetic oil.

I have been using synthetic in my 2003 Mini (it came with it) for five years.

I am planning on changing over all my cars, even my Lexus, to synthetic with my next oil change, I will use Castrol Syntec 20W-50 in my LBC's.

Happy MGing,

David......
David Honness

Hey,
All you guys seem to have missed the past two years ZDDP controversy.

For XPEG/XPAG engines, with flat tappets, you must use new formulations that contain at least 0.12 % ZDDP, or eventually have massive cam and tappet damage!!!!!

The oils mentioned above do not have sufficient ZDDP to inhibit this damage in time. Note that engines that were running on the old versions of the oil take considerable time before the effects show up, Newly rebuilt engines may show the effect after several hours of operation.

Castrol has now made a special SYNTEC 20W50 for "Classic Cars" that contains enough ZDDP to avoid the damage. It is clearly labeled for "Classic Cars". Not 5W50, etc but only 20W50 synthetic has the "stuff".
Some Valvolines, Redlines and Motorcycle oils have enough ZDDP, BUT most others do not and are killing our engines!!!!!

Please see the archives and the article "New Oil is Killing Us"

Don Harmer

When the ZDDP issue arose I contacted Mobil to see if their synthetic oils had the neccesary amount. I found that their 15-50 Full Synthetic Extended Service did so I've been using it in my 52TD with good results. The few leaks I once had have stopped completely.
Plus, it is easy to find.
George
GF Metz

I am confused (and skeptical) about the statements made by the oil companies stating that their synthetic oils have the "necessary amount" of ZDDP.
ZDDP was removed from oils by the manufacturers due to its harmful effects on catalytic converters. This would seem to be a problem with synthetic oil as well as "regular" oil. The only current oils with the previous amounts of ZZDP are "racing" oils which have a loophole of being used in vehicles without catalytic converters.

Incidentally, the original justification of the high cost of using synthetic oils was the increase in the change interval due to its alleged longer useful life, not necessarily that it had better lubrication qualities.
In old engines such as ours, the main reason for oil changes is not mileage, but contaimation from a carburetor fuel system, and condensation effects.
I change my oil annually, generally with fairly low mileage, to get fresh oil in the system. I am not sure this warrants synthetic oil?

Dallas
D C Congleton

As near as I can tell, most of the contact one can make with an oil company, is with "Public Relations and Sales". The phrase "necessary amount" refers to amounts of ZDDP that are OK for up to 10 year old cars (0.07% maximum to 0.00%) but below that needed for flat tappet engines( more than 0.12%)
none of them will publlsh the ZDDP amount in the new oils, but if it is SM or the Diesel equivalent it dosn't meet our needs. The Sales people don't exactly lie but they are not going to say "don't use our oil". To them an old car is 10 years old (NOT 50 or 60). 10 year old cars did not have flat tappets but hydraulic lifters or overhead cams.

Castrol has a new special formulation that does not meet the SM rating for our cars. It is expensive synthetic 20W50 and is clearly marked by a yellow banner for Classic Cars.

Don't believe the "necessary amount" unless the will quote and certify the greater than ).12% ZDDP
Don Harmer

My only experience was with my daily driver Saturn. It never leaked oil until I put synthetic in it. It began leaking immediatly and still leaks, though not nearly as much, since I switched back to conventional oil. Might just be a co-incidence but I will never use that stuff again. Paul
P.W. Lester

Hi Don,

I guess it was implicit but actually, we were talking about the ZDDP problem. David's first post asks about needing to add ZDDPlus at oil changes. The article "This new oil is killing our engines" was written by Keith Anstel and I have discussed this with him. I believe it was Keith who suggested the VR1, but I'm not sure, hence the question in my previous post.

This is also why I asked if the level of concern would be less for well-broken-in engines, since tappet lubrication is especially critical in newly rebuilt engines.

Heck, weren't our flat-tappet engines obsolete even when they were still being built? Thanks for your tip on the Castrol synthetic 20W50. ' Think I'll try it.

Cheers,
Allen
Allen Bachelder


I used a lot of ZDDP additives when I did the break in on my TD engine. This was exactly when the issues started coming up about tappet and cam wear from low ZDDP levels. In the reading I did, it appeared this was primarily an issue for break in. If not enough ZDDP, you got excessive wear during break in and failure at very low miles. Can't say if this is true. I switched to VR1 as soon as break in was done. Cost is not all that bad and it works well in the TD.

Not necessarily something that you find at a gas station, but my oil consumption is very low and so far, I have been good with the extra quart I carry along.

As for oil leaks, can't complain, but after being very meticulous in the rebuild, runing origial rear slinger, new front modern seal, the amount of oil on my drip pan is down to occasional drips. But then, I am probably just lucky.
Bruce-C

Moss now has a bottle of Zinc additive. I used Amsoil 20-50 racing synthetic for a while, and my leakage doubled. I was told by my local parts store (the old kind where they know what they are doing) that Kendall GT-1 20-50 now has the zinc back in it. Seems that most all modern cars use the really thin stuff, not 20-50, so no problem with converters. George
George Butz

Take a look at these links concerning ZDDP. I've included the product data sheet for the Valvoline ZR-1 Racing Oil but the Castrol site did not include a data sheet for the new Castrol 20w-50 Syntec for Classic Cars.

I hope this is helpful.

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf

http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1%20Racing%20Motor%20Oil.pdf

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644

Gary Kinslow '69B roadster Pale Primrose

The second link doesn't seem to work as posted. Try this one. It displays the ZDDP percentage in the ZR-1 oil.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1 Racing Motor Oil.pdf
Gary Kinslow '69B roadster Pale Primrose

Bingo! If not, just copy and paste into your address bar.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1RacingMotorOil.pdf
Gary Kinslow '69B roadster Pale Primrose

OK, one last time. Go to http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=50 and click on the "Product Info" link on the left. If this doesn't work, I give up.
Gary Kinslow '69B roadster Pale Primrose

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf

I use the VR1 20w-50 in my MGB. Will use it in my TF if/when I get it on the road.
Carl Floyd

Hey Guys,

After all the investigating, checking out Castrol Syntec, Valvoline and talking with many people I am going with Keith Ansell from Foreign Parts Positive in Oregon suggestion with staying with Castrol regular 20W-50 and using the additive cam-shield. Keith has been using this for some time with out any problems. I am just concerned with opening up a can of worms by using synthetic oil in my TD, MGA, and Austin Healey. I have enough problems of oil leaks with my Healey.

You can go to the web site of www.cam-shield.com and see what its all about. I bought the larger size.

Thanks to everyone for there help and comments. I have learned a lot. I will keep anyone updated on my success if they want.

Happy MG'ing

Cheers,

David......
David Honness

This thread was discussed between 19/07/2008 and 03/08/2008

MG TD TF 1500 index

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