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MG TD TF 1500 - T Series Survival Tips
| As a "TD virgin" (have had my 53TD a week) I admit to paranoia. The last time I bought a "used car" :) was forty years ago. The thought of now owning a half-century-old vehicle is a bit scary. At the risk of being presumptous, may I propose an on-going thread on what can be done to minimize the risk of waiting for a tow truck to come to the rescue. I am thinking of all the suggestions, tips, equipment, conversions and on board spares that will serve to give the drivers of these antiques every hope and chance of getting home under one's own power. Charles Searles of the NE Registry told me that years ago folks drove to meets and now they more often trail their vehicles. The collector of the seventies were dealing with 25-year old cars and now we are all dealing with 50-year old cars. Time is not in our favor. So, speaking for myself, survival tips would be most welcome. |
| S Hess |
| Don't know about others...but having had the TD on the road only since August (after 24 years in a barn), I have found the drive to meets as much fun as the meet... would hate to have to trailer it. The mileage on mine is 48,000 and I assume is the actual... I treat the car like any other with 50,000 miles on it... I drive it...lots. (have put 3000 miles on it since August). With the high gearing I don't go over 3500 rpm, the engine sounds just fine there, but I don't feel comfortable faster... Have checked all the rubber stuff on the car, as I blew the rubber hose to the oil pressure gauge the first night I drove it... 5 quarts of oil got blown out pretty quick. Big thing is to just check everything... oil, water, hoses, etc and change oil/filter every 2 or 3 thousand miles. Check all electrical connections and replace those "crispy" bullet coverings... Remember, in the 50's/50's these were daily drivers... and unlike today's cars, the stuff on them can be repaired...its all really solid... Then of course there are tons of replacement parts from various suppliers.... Good luck... don't be too paranoid... just enjoy and repair as needed. |
| gordon lawson |
| Oh... and always have a cel phone and your AAA/CAA paid up... Keep em pretty much stock.... |
| gordon lawson |
| S. Hess - As a TD owner for the past 30 years, we started out driving the TD everywhere (it was our second car and quickly became my wife's everyday car to transport kids, groceries, dog, lumber - you name it, it was carried int he TD) in every kind of weather that the Puget Sound region could throw at us. Now after 30 years, we have an old beater truck to haul the lumber, the kids are on their own and we have a more modern car for about half of our driving - a 1966 MGB. If we go anywhere, it is in an MG, with the TD being used almost as much as the MGB. If it is cold, we carry a blanket, if it rains, we get wet, if it snows, well we have found that the TD is just about the best car we have had for driving inthe snow (we also carry a set of chains in both MGs. I will sit down in the next couple of days and write up some of the things we have learned about driving the cars over the years. The best advice I can give is to go through the car and make it as reliable mechanically and electrically as possible (our TD has, without a doubt been the most reliable car we have ever owned), Take it out every chance you have and river it to learn everything there is about it and it's quirks, carry a spare fuel pump of some kind (I will go into that in more depth when I send you the write up). Finally always go out armed with a AAA membership and a cell phone (however, in 30 years our TD has only been towed home 3 times). Cheers - Dave PS JOIN A LOCAL CLUB OR REGISTER and then participate!!! Ther is safety in numbers :) |
| David DuBois |
| ...by "trailering" I was referring to the long trips to GOF meets and such. We have a couple of local things each year and I of course plan to go on the TD's tires. But the next GOF is in Gettysburg, PA, some six hours at 70mph on the superslab in a modern car. It seems to be that undertaking a trip like that in a vintage car at 50-55 mph is only for those who talk directly to God (and have obtained assurances) or whose better half is directly behind in a 4-wheel, running interference and with a tow bar tucked in the back. |
| S Hess |
| David That is very reassuring, if not slightly astonishing. I owned a two-year old MGA back in 1962 and that car wasn't even reliable then (a long story)! But you give me heart. I have in fact joined the Registry, and local owners have been more than friendly and helpful as I begin to discover them. When you get around to some of your postings I can only feel that I will not be the only one to appreciate teh, Steve |
| S Hess |
| The trip to the GOF in the TD would be one of the most beautiful drives you will ever experience... get a map and find some nice rural roads...take an extra day...what the heck... Like I said... mine had been in a barn for 24 years.. got it running on August 4th and on Sept. 9th I headed off for Watkins Glen...and in a hurricane as well... 2nd best time I have ever had... http://www.niagarabritishcarclub.org ... events... Watkins. |
| gordon lawson |
| Steve When the dust of new ownership settles and you are looking to improve the car I suggest fitting a 4.3:1 Crown Wheel and Pinion (MGA) in the rear axle. (I'm having mine done in January). It will give more relaxed cruising and make first gear more usable. Depending on your tyre size it will increase MPH per 1000RPM in top by about 2mph which means at a relaxed 3000RPM the car will be doing 53mph instead of 47. Again this is covered in the archives. John |
| John James |
| John I envy the "getting mine done" phrase. I know about this mod but the trick is discovering a mechanic who know this stuff. Rochester NY is different from Rochester UK by virtue of an absence of British car mechanics. If discover a skilled wrench turner, I will make that change. I am running at 3000 rpm and that seems to be about 50 mph in top gear. The speedo does not seem to be particulalrly accurate. The next sunny day I will take it out with a handheld GPS and clock it. |
| Steve Hess |
| Steve I can vouch for Dave Dubois Driving the TD even in inclement weather. Some of us from our local club (Campbell River) took our cars and drove down to Washington State for a weekend away in Spring 2004. As I had communicated with Dave over the Internet and knowing that he was somewhere in Washington I let him know where we were planning to be. Seems he lives about an hours drive away and Dave his wife Liz and two other couples drove in the rain to have dinner with us. It was a great time that we all thoroughly enjoyed and it felt like we had all known each other a long time. The thing is that they drove an hour (or more) in the rain both ways just to have dinner and a visit. I drove my 74 "B" but next time I will be taking my 1950 TD that has just been completed. You meet a lot of great people driving these pieces of history. Remember that they were meant to be driven! Brian |
| Brian Smith |
| Steve, Driving our TD has changed our way of thinking about getting away,, or a vacation,,, It's not how fast you get there, but rather how you get there,,, the trip starts when you leave home,,, don't be in a rush,,, Actually, we try to turn a relativly short trip into a two or three day adventure,,ie from CT, we take at least two days to get to Watkins Glen, as Gordon so rightfully states, the trip to a G.O.F "could be one of the most beautiful drives you will ever experience... get a map and find some nice rural roads...take an extra day...what the heck..." why bother with the highways ??? take your time,,, find some interesting little out of the way towns,,, enjoy the car as it was ment to be,, and, unless it's broke, don't trailer it !!! SPW |
| Steve Wincze |
| The encouragement is appreciated. If the Rochester GOF crowd drives, I will "screw my courage to the sticking place" as Lady Macbeth said (while driving a TD)and go along. But solo, probably not. |
| Steve Hess |
| The Lady probably also said "Misery is Best Shared", when the weather turned bad. MG travelling is best done as a couple... the only drawback being slight loss in your horsepower-to-weight ratio. You'll soon know of all the good places within 1-2 hrs away WITH SECURE OVERNIGHT GARAGING to get away for a weekend. :) |
| Will |
| As a result of my posting, I received two e-mails about going to the Glenn and why it takes two days from CT,,, Actually, one trip out there was three days,,, the first day was to Skaneateles Ny ,,, http://www.skaneateles.com/index.shtml A short trip on each side of Skaneateles Lake capped off by dinner at a resatauant deck over looking the lake and the sunset,,, the next day was off to cruise the southern shore of Lake Ontario, and the apple orchards and vineyards, then back to Lake Oneita on the east side of Syracuse,,, great steak house, even the boxing hall of fame !!! Then the third day was down into the Glenn,,, Life is short,,, enjoy the things you love,,, wife, life, MG SPW |
| Steve Wincze |
| Steve - Regarding "long trips" to GoF, we have taken our TD twice on 5000+ mile trips through the western US. Once was to go to GoF west in Snow Mass, Colorado and the other was to show our foreign exchange student the western part of the country (both times the daughter was driving with us in another car, once in our Audi and the other time in the MGB). Both times we took the cars up the highest passes inthe Rockies and through the deserts in eastern Utah and both times the TD ran flawlessly. Oh yes, the TD still has the 5.125 rear axle ratio and we travel at a constant 4200 rpm (about 60 mph). Believe me, the highe rpms are much harder on your nerves than on the car. More later. Cheers - Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Thank you Dave. It is a confidence thing and hopefully will come with time. I have never had a car passed 70K miles or 5 years...so this classic car thing is very new to me. This morning I gingerly took the distributor cap off to check if I had a symmetrical cam (to order a pertronix module) and to my delight found everything to be brand spanking new. another check on the confidence chart |
| Steve Hess |
| My TD has been towed home twice since '76, once with broken axle, once with broken crankshaft. Stuff to keep an eye on- check brake fluid periodically, and eyeball the backs/bottom edges of the brake back plates and the brake master cylinder rubber boot for fluid leak- if your level goes down (a spark plug socket is perfect fit on MC cap). These cars vibrate, shake, and rattle things loose. Anually check bolts on: fenders, running boards, bolts around the firewall, brackets from body to frame hoop under the dash, starter mounting, carb float bowl to body, oil pan to block, manifold clamp nuts, nuts under dash for windshield bracket screws, etc. Just snug- don't twist off. Watch for fluid leaks- the back of the engine will probably drip, possibly the tranny/speedo cable. Should never be brake fluid or antifreeze coolant. The bottom of the carbs may be damp with gas, but an entire drop or more requires investigation.These cars are not particularly fragile- I drive the heck out of mine. Just shift slowly (click-click) without grinding, and have fun! Keep cell phone handy, and as above AAA. AAA recently flat-bedded my dad's Ford truck, myself, and daughter to dealership- never had to use with the TD. Check brake fluid, trans. oil, coolant, and rear axle lube periodically also. |
| George Butz |
| Steve: If you are asking what are the most common things that go wrong and what you should carry, I can give a little help. Having had my TD for 30 years, I have a few things that always go with me, but probably not as much as others. Emery cloth for sticking fuel pump and ignition points (both can be replaced with new electronic systems that eliminate the points). A bit of wire for pesky electronic issues. Extra copper washer gaskets for oil leaks. Small amount of gasket material (had a rear head water jacket plate leak once. basic tools. Fluids,including oil and water. Some folks carry a spare axle for long trips, but I personally have not had to replace one (I did change the gears to the 4:30 as mentioned above. With the exception of my recent catastrophic engine failure (threw a rod). My TD has never broken down to where I could not repair it on the road and get it home. Some of this is due to preventative maintenance, some probably by luck. |
| Bruce Cunha |
| I am with Bruce regarding carrying a rear axle half shaft. I have never broken one my self and they are usually available from Moss on an overnight basis. One note of caution regarding half shafts. You have a "fly-off" hand brake in the TD (an absolutely marvelous way for a hand brake to operate, I am working on converting our MGB hand brake to operate the same way) - make good use of it. The half shafts are rather fragile, particularly the original ones and with the very low rear axle ratio coupled with an often times a grabby clutch, it is very easy to snap one. The most usual scenario for snapping a half shaft is waiting at a signal on a hill. The signal changes and the driver comes off the brakes and goes for the accelerator and quickly releases the clutch while stomping on the gas. Of course the car rolls back while all of the above is going on and the grabby clutch, exceedingly low gear ratio and high revs on the engine do the dirty deed. I never start on any kind of a grade, regardless of how shallow, without holding the car with the hand brake while releasing the clutch gently. I guess that comes from lots of driving on Seattle's infamous hills, where trying to come off the brake and hitting the gas quickly while letting the clutch out, results in one's ending up one block down the hill before everything meshes. I really can't emphasize enough the importance of holding the car with the hand brake while starting on a grade of any kind, it only takes an instant of rolling back and catching it with the clutch to begin the learning process of how to change out a half shaft. Cheers - Dave PS - That fly-off hand brake also serves as the best anti-theft device there ever was - I have never seen a non T or MGA owner who can figure out how to set or release it. |
| David DuBois |
| Steve: As with anything, start with baby steps. The key to T life, is how confident you feel about your abilities. Like Dave, I have driven them for 30 something years, (not all the cars were pristeen - a lot of $500. cars in there). A TD was my first car and for many years my only car. Started with the Ball/Autobook manual and jumped in like I was at the Maine shore. You can fit a lot of groceries, etc. in the boot and they are great in snow. A comforter and a can of spray deicer, were long time companions. Just put a basic set of tools, some wire, some tape, some nuts, bolts and screws and a workshop manual in the tool bin and fold the windscreen down. A copy of the T-Register's TSO, will get you some varied area numbers to call and a local club/chapter will give you the local support and mentoring that will bring years of enjoyment. As to reliability, my TD was in bits across the garage floor, three weeks before it was due to be delivered to the docks for transport to England for the T-Register's Circuit of Britain (2500 miles covered and traveled from Lands End to John O'Groats). Narry a problem and a great time. Remember, it is a mechanical beastie and all we are talking about in the end is some bits tied together with a few bolts and nuts. Nuff said. Saftey Fast Paul |
| Paul |
| Bruce, George David Paul! Your posts are invaluable to me (and I suspect to not a few others. Thank you so much for sharing what is probably 100 years of TD experience. I printed everything out and have taken it to heart. Steve |
| Steve Hess |
| David D I restored my first TF in 1966 when I lived in Renton and fiance lived in Manchester. I remember when visiting over there one weekend I broke a rear axel. I guess it was on a hill as you describe but at the time it seemed like it just let go without any real load. Other than that it was a very reliable car and driven daily. Every time I seee you post I think of the three or four years we enjoyed that car. Still have the wife, had to buy back a TF1500 last year after too long without it and am loving every minute of it. Don't think I could do the constant rain thing again though. My current car has a modern fuel pump in line with the original that can be switched on if needed. Has not been needed but I'm glad to have it because I think the fuel pump is one of the most common problems. Dave |
| D Clark |
| Steve, Welcome to the board... you have found everything you need, this BBS, the NEMGTR and Charlie. You didn't state what condition your car is, but I believe the best thing you can do for reliability is to replace the wiring harness. The cars usually get a bad wrap for the lucas electronics, but it's usually 50 years of people splicing in and out of the harness that is the culpret. I carry a little plastic divider case with all sorts of things... points, condensor, plugs, washers for the carbs, grose jets, klampons (spade wiring connectors), nuts, washers, etc. Always carry a test light. Always carry the maintence manual. Always carry a quart of oil, a fan belt, supercharger belt (giggle, giggle) Ask this BBS how tight to make your fan belt... go ahead I dare you... Fill the toolbox up with tools, Fill the side curtain stowage area up with fluids and parts. Keep the side curtains in the garage, because they look silly with the top down. Never put the top up, except to store it for the winter, (keeps it from shrinking) The NEMGTR is putting out all the technical articles from the last 40 years on CD ROM, I don't recomend you take that with you on your trips, but it will be a great reference for the new TD owner. Hope to see you at a GOF in the future. Blair |
| Blair Weiss |
| Dave Clark - Renton to Manchester was a long drive unless you took the ferry (which in those days was reasonably priced and kept a reasonable schedual, unlike today). I had to chuckle when you say you have put a "modern" pump in line with your SU fuel pump. The HP SU pumps like used inthe TF 1500 is still being manufactured today and you can even buy them in a totally electronic layout - looks and sounds like any other SU pump, but does away with the points. We just got back from a trip to England and one of the things I did while over ther was to visit Burlen Fuel Systems, who build al things SU now days. I even got a tour of the facilities and got to talk to their top man with the all electronic fuel pumps. He and I had a really enjoyable time exchanging information on the fuel pumps for about an hour. I am, however and advocate of installing a backup pump and wiring it through a switch, "just in case". You might want to read my article on SU fuel pumps on the following web site: http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/dd_su_fuel_pumps_101.htm There is also a write up of my SU fuel pump services that is linked at the end of the article. Cheers - Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Blair and others:) Thanks again. My car is basically concours although I do not know the extent of engine and transmision rebuild because the well-known Geoff Wheateley who sold it to me basically said "everything has been done" and his reputation is such that I simply didn't question it. He is proud of his cars and rightfully so but that also means he gets "annoyed" if you want every detail and every compression reading. I am well on the way to having all the tools and parts on hand. Both Moss and Abingdon will have a good month because of me :) Would love some detail on how the backup fuel pump is installed and where?? Dave Clark, you are obviously a flyer and I just sold N28SH a great Bonanza so if we get tired of talking about TD's, there's always IO-520's to discuss Steve |
| Steve Hess |
| Steve, I rebuilt my SU pump several years ago, and have cleaned the points once or twice. It has never stopped. For a long road trip I would throw in a spare pump just in case- easy and quick to change. There is an article around somewhere that used a blood pressure cuff bulb, rubber tubing, and a rubber stopper that you stuff into the tank filler hole and pump to pressurize for a true emergency pump. You can plumb/wire in another pump, but that gives you more places for leakage, etc. Also, the price of an in-line back up pump is a big chunk of what a new or rebuit one costs. Check out David's link and info above. George |
| George Butz |
| Just finished a 3400 mile trip in the TD from NJ to Idaho, so take "trailer" out of your vocabulary! Good advice so far...join a club...have a national list of shops & MG owners if you're traveling out of your local area....get the new NEMGTR CD that has all the maintenance tips from the last 30 years, it should be available soon. |
| Robert Dougherty |
| I ordered the CD and will take all this good advice... |
| Steve Hess |
| I can't offer the wealth of information as some here, but I'm a fairly new owner of a '53 YB, which shares most of the same parts sa a TD including the engine and transmission. My car was purchased as an original, unrestored car with 76,000 miles on it. With no mechanical work, I then put 2,000 miles on the car in every type of terrain and despite sitting for 20 years unused it has still proven reliable. Any old car "can" be unreliable but if everything is in good order there is nothing to worry about. And if the worst were to happen then how bad would it be? You try to fix it on the road, which you probably can, and if you can't then you call AAA and you're simply 30 minutes late for dinner. In my opinion, the best thing you can do is go over every bit of the car and check all hoses, fittings and especially electrical. Age takes its toll on electrical components in many ways from corrosion to brittle wiring. Good luck with the new toy! |
| Steve Simmons |
| David D I did both the ferry and drive around. My wifes father was a captain on the Fauntleroy Southworth run and happened to be a one armed man! Great info on the fuel pump. Steve H Yours sounds like my car. Mine was restored by Mike Goodman in LA, also a well known restorer. It is completely right as far as I can tell. Fortunately the fellow that had it restored kept it for five years and used it little. I figure it's for driving. It parks next to my wife's 1994 Vanden Plas that has only 40,000 miles. I showed that car a couple of years ago and got two firsts that netted me first in class in the SW region JCNA. I got mad when they deducted for the Dealer provided chrome factory wheels so they'll not see this fine example at any shows anymore. I figure it's for driving. Yes I've owned about 40 planes over the years. Mostly classics. The only plane that I've never owned and would have liked to is a Bonanza. My Cessna 195 was the closest thing to that. Now have a 180 HP Cessna 170B and use it as our pickup truck at our Summer home in the San Juan Islands (WA state). My love of aviation and involvment with The Jag club in Seattle kept me away from the MG far too long. I drive it almost every day that we're here in AZ. Apologies to all for diressing in this thread. Dave Clark |
| D Clark |
| I am greatly encouraged. The wiring and everything else is new although I noticed two grommets not inserted fully on the firewall so I will have to either tape the wires to cushion them against the pass-through hole edges or possibly unhook all the wires at the regulator, fuse block and horn and re-seat the grommet..don't see that I can do that with the wires in place. Shifting down from 4 to 3 is just about impossible without a little gear grind, even double clutching, so that will one day need to be addressed. I have never belonged to AAA because I couldn't imagine a current well maintained car breaking down and flats I can fix myself. However, I guess it is time to check them out and see if they guarantee coverage for flat beds. Steve |
| Steve Hess |
| Hi Steve, Great bulletin board here, isn't it? I've come to rely-on and appreciate all the folks worldwide who contribute so unselfishly on this board. With respect to your downshift difficulties from 4th to 3rd; you may want to start thinking about a rebuild seminar with John Twist in Grand Rapids. He has a yearly seminar for the T-type gearbox which will next be February 7th and 8th. You carry it into his shop and plop it down on a table. Then you tear it down and rebuild it under his supervision within those two days. My dad and I attended a few years back and really enjoyed ouselves. It's great fellowship with like-minded folks and it's a pretty cost-effective way to rebuild the gearbox. His website is "www.universitymotorsltd.com". Not too bad a trip across I-90 from Rochester, particularly when you have to go about 85 to keep up with traffic through Michigan. Safety? Fast? Scott Ashworth - '54 TF |
| S. R. Ashworth |
| Scott That is really appealing but I would have to find someone here to pull it out of the car. I assume this is not something that qualifies as a no-brainer. I had a couple of very knowledgeable mechanics here today to give the car a check out. Everything was great except they could not get a front drum off even after backing off the shoes. I didn't own a gear puller so we gave up. Tapping with a mallet did not budge the drum. Bearings sounded just fine (no noise, smooth rotation) Steve |
| Steve Hess |
| You have to have a puller to get the front drums off. The rears are easy and so are the fronts but puller is ness. |
| Tom |
| Steve, My newly acquired TF has grinded during that downshift from 4th to 3rd, to the point that I just skipped 3rd altogether and waited until the speed was down enough to shift into 2nd from 4th. THEN......after driving the car all summer this way (first year with the little gem) I discovered that if I waited until the speed was down substancially, that I could downshift from 4th to 3rd without grinding. Now I've entirely changed my driving techniques with the car. I shift gears up and am in 4th by the time I achieve 25 mph (tach never over 2500 rpm)...equals no grinding, particularly if you take your time shifting...snick...snick. Downshifting I do the same way, but I wait until I'm at least down to 20 mph to shift down to 3rd, and so on from there. The whole shifting experience has to be very laidback with my car, in order not to grind gears. I've discovered that the tranny loves it this way, and with 68 000 miles on the odometer (who knows if its ever been rebuilt)why hurt it now. The car is such a blast to drive otherwise, that I'm more than happy to live with it this way. It sure doesn't shift like my 90 Nissan 300 ZX, but then again its technology is 36 years older. Maybe this type of an approach will work for you as well. Gene |
| Gene Burgess |
| Gene is right about the slow, taking your time shifting. Remember this is a rather primative synchro arrangement. I suggest a two-click shift (click into neutral, then into gear). No way you can do it without grind going straight into gear without the neutral pause. The pedals are not exactly set up to heel-toe shift with my wide feet, making rev-matched downshifts about impossible, at least for me. Probably best not to downshift to slow the car down, as brakes are cheap, transmission not. |
| George Butz |
| Mine will also grind if I don't do a slow gear/neutral/gear change... think it might be normal. The clutch on mine has to be all the way to the floor as well.... Downshifts can be done without the grind, but its a slow double clutch and a little higher rev in neutral then normal. |
| gordon lawson |
| Steve, Gene and George - It is just as well that your transmission is forcing you to slow down before down shifting, it is looking out for the engine. Our engines, because they have a split small end for attachment of the rod to the gudgeon pin, are very vulnerable to the forces placed on it by trying to slow the car by down shifting. Due to the very high amount of vacuum formed when one lifts his foot from the a throttle witht he clutch engaged, it is possible to break the gudgeon pin pinch bolt when one down shifts to slow the car from speed. Take it from someone who has had the pinch bolt fail at 4200 rpm, that is something you don't want happening. Steve - Regarding the grommets, you don't necessarily have to remove the wiring harness from the holes to work the grommet in. Get one edge of the grommet started, then get on the other side and start working around the grommet edge through the hole with something like and orange stick or a very dull screwdriver (so as to avoid cutting the grommet edge). This will take a bit of work and may necessitate having a helper push from the other side, but having worked in elsectronics for 40 years, I have done itsuccessfully more times that I care to think of. Good luck - Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Gents, About 3 years ago when I obtained my current 53 TD there was an ongoing thread about transmission lubricants. The consensus was that Red Line synthetic was an excelent product. Red Line not being readily available locally,I change mine over to Amsoil synthetic. The results in terms of transmission noise and ease of shifting is remarkable. The snick - snick two step gear change has been with us since these cars were new at least mine dating to the late 50's (when I was a teen)was the same. The synthetic lubricant seems to releave mechanical drag making the whole experience resemble a modern Japanese five speed only just do it slower. As to driving reliability, properly adjusted and maintained carbs and ignition and attention to all recommended lubricants throughout the vehicle will serve you well. I have only had one dead in the road experience over the years. It was the main coil wire that fractured due to vibration. About fifteen minutes of troubleshooting and a pocket knife put us back on the road. Enjoy and Safety Fast! Jimbo6 1953 MGTD |
| J. M. Haskins |
This thread was discussed between 28/11/2004 and 02/12/2004
MG TD TF 1500 index
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