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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TD 5 speed conversion

I have seen postings re converting TD's to a 5 speed, but in reading the postings, I don't have a sense of what is the concensus best choice. The Moss conversion kit is $3600. I'd prefer to spend less if possible.

Is there a better choice (that's available)? Where or from who? What are the pros and cons of the various options? There's no issue with mechanic's fees, as a good friend and I will be able to do the conversion.

For my Canadian T colleagues - is there any Cdn. source? The government gets enough of my tax money and having to pay duty is one tax grab I'd love to avoid.
Phil Atrill

phil, upgrading the rear end ratio wouldn't do the trick for you? regards, tom
tom peterson

Phil...
The Moss 5-speed comes from www.hi-gearengineering.co.uk

You can buy the kit directly from Peter Gamble at Hi-Gear (international call) and save approximately $1000 (even with shipping costs). Customs duty was only $56.

I just added up the costs (rounded off):

Kit - $1482 T-9 transmission - $745
Shipping - $414
Customs - $56

Total - $2642

The kit consists of:

1. Cast aluminium Bell Housing.
2. Gasket, Bell Housing to gearbox.
3. Spigot bush.
4. Rear rubber gearbox mounting.
5. Modified front rubber engine mounting.
6. New gearbox support crossmember.
7. Two crossmember side supports/lockplates.
8. Engine mounting packing plate.
9. Exhaust support bracket.
10. Engine torque reaction bracket/bolt.
11. Two floor rail support brackets. 12. Gear lever assembly, chrome.
13. Clutch plate (for 7¼" or 8" pressure plate).
14. Speedometer cable/circlip.
15. Brake pipe (RHD only).
16. Fan spacer (TF only) + bolts.
17. Modified front wing tie bar (TF only).
18. Propshaft.
19. Gearbox cover in moulded ABS.
20. All bolts and fasteners.
21. Detailed fitting instructions.
22. Loctite.

Upgrading the rear end may be fine but if your transmission is *iffy* this would definitely be the easier way.
Gene Gillam

You also must move the engine foward with the HI GEAR unit,,, But not with the SKYHOOK conversion,,,,,
Steve Wincze

Phil, just a question, why go with a 5 speed? You change the gear ratio in the rear end and have the same thing without all the work and expense of the 5 speed. I have a 4:10 in mine and it runs at highway speeds very well with lot lower RPM's than the standard gearing. Cost is about 1000-1500 or less if done by yourself, using MGA gears.
TRM Maine

Steve,

Not disagreeing with you on the engine movement but everything is exposed to you when you're doing the swap so it's not that hard from what I've heard.

And I have heard that there's a problem getting the Datsun transmission for the Skyhook conversion now.

Gene
Gene Gillam

I remember that the Datsun 210 was replacement gearbox, but what were the applications and years that the Ford T9 was used in US
Jon Levine

Joe,
As far as I know the T9 was only used in the Merkur XR4TI (1985-1989) over here but that's irrelevant really...rebuilt replacement T9 transmissions are readily available in the UK.
Gene Gillam

Gentlemen, thanks. Tom/TRM - my transmission is a little temperamental so an upgrade, rather than just doing the rear end, makes sense.
Phil Atrill

Dear friends,
this is again an interesting thread and I would like to give my personal view on it:

When I bought my TD29276 the rear axle was already converted to a 4.3 ratio. This was fine for me because I lived in the country side and I drove mainly on Highways or Interstates.
Now I have moved from the US back home to Hamburg in Germany. Hamburg is a city with 2 Million citizens and the traffic behavior is completely different. There is a Lot of traffic in the rush hours in the morning and at night with stop and go traffic. Additional you have to stop permanently on traffic lights. For this kind of traffic I do not feel the 4.3 ratio is NOT the best solution and I would highly prefer the 5-speed conversion.

What I mean is, for your choice you should consider the traffic mode were you are expect to drive.

I have the T-9 transmission and the conversion kit from Hi Gear Engineering ready for installation but the combination 5-speed together with a 4.3 ratio makes absolutely no sense.
To rebuild the rear end and to install the 5-speed transmission means a lot of work and I’m not ready to do it. Therefore, my plan is on hold.

By the way, Good luck and safety fast for the second halve of 2009!

Cheers,
Guenter
Guenter

Hi,
I'd like to reply to Guenter's comments. I live in London, population 6 million and growing, and difficult traffic problems at most times.
I have both a 4:3 axle and a 5 speed box fitted in my TD and to my mind it's a wonderful combination. What it gives is a very flexible 1st and 2nd gear for stop-go traffic, (especially the synchro in 1st) and low revs cruising on motorways and 'A' roads.
Although the axle was converted 'professionally' I installed the gearbox bought from HiGear, it was an easy straight forward exercise and took about a day.
I recommend it.

Mike.
Mike Christie

Mike, thanks for replay, but what is your experience with the 5th gear and the max. speed on Highway ? You are able to increase the max. speed with this combination ?
With my actual 4.3 axle and the original 4 speed gear box with a 1.0 output ratio I'm unable to turn the engine higher than 4500 RPM. There is simply not enough power.
If I convert to the 5 speed gear box I'll have an output ratio of 0.8 and that combined with a 4.3 axle ratio the effect must be much more evident the total gearing is to high and the engine runs out of push.
But I agree with you on lower gears it will be the same as with the 4 speed transmission.
May be I was not precisely enough but my point was with the 4.3 ratio the car becomes more aggressive and this is not what I like in difficult trafic. On highway trafic it might be OK.
Therefore, my recomendation is to select the rear end ratio conversion if you drive mainly in highway trafic and select the 5 speed transmision combined with standard 5.125 or 4.875 rear ends.
Cheers,
Guenter
Guenter

I have been in heavy traffic (as well as parades) and don't know what you mean by 'aggressive'...the 4.3 gives me a 1st gear I can actually use?
Remember, the XPAG in the MGTC had the 5.123 rear end with 19" wheels... and they must have had tons of rear ends built and just kept using them in the TD.... to me the ratio makes no sense. I'm sure with the extra gearing I could have better 0-60 times (not that i care) then the stock ratio? Again, when I had a stock rear end, I never used 1st gear...no point for 6 miles an hour....!
gblawson(gordon)

I agree with Gorndon on this one...a good explanation for how we ended up with these "low-range" 1st gears!
Unless somebody in Abingdon had a need to pull tree stumps,(even with the stock higher TF gears), about the only time I used 1st gear was stopped on a steep hill or pulling it up on ramps to change oil.
I run 4.3 now and happier with that, but have wondered what a 5 speed would be like at highway speeds.
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

I have both the 4.3 rear end and the Skyhook 5-speed in my TD. I am happy with both, but agree that the car "won't pull" in 5th gear above say 65 mph. If you want to pass in 5th, forget it, you'll need to downshift.

That said, the gearing is virtually the same as the stock gearbox in the first 4 gears, so no harm done when installing the 5-speed with the 4.3. However, at speeds above 55 mph on the highway, it's very nice IMHO to shift to 5th, and have the RPM at 2800 at 60 mph. Nice and smooth and much, much easier on the ears and less taxing on the engine. Of course, I live in the flatlands of Texas :-) The syncro in first alone is almost worth the cost of the 5-speed itself.

So, I see no difference in the first 4 gears in having the 4.3 and the 5-speed, vs just the 4.3 alone with the OEM gearbox. You just have one more gear you can use, or not use.

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Gordon,

The TC differential is totally different from the TD differential. We can use a midget pumpkin in ours by drilling new bolt holes in the Midget pumpkin flange and either swapping spider gears or buying axles with the correct splines from Bob Grunau. But we can't use a TD or MGA pumpkin.

Gene
Gene Gillam

There are a whole lot of issues at play here and it dangerous to generalize.

I live near Montreal (almost 4 mln, now) and when I go to the city I have no problem with my 4.3 and standard gearbox. When I did my most recent rebuild in 2003, I selected a new cam that provided good mid-range torque, and this has worked well. The original TD/TF cam was terrible and is probably one source of problem.

The point I'm trying to make here is that each engine performs differently and a gutless engine will almost universally make city driving difficult.

I would love a 5-speed if for no other reason, than for the synchro 1st gear.

BTW, there IS another option. A company in OZ is making 5-speed conversions using the 88-89 Corolla 5-speed. I intend to chase it down.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.


Gordon A. Clark

... sorry - please correct.

Should read 78-79 Corolla.

gac
Gordon A. Clark

Gene....your right... except for the ratio....Now I'm not sure what they were thinking when continuing the same diff ratio with 15" tires.... the stock gearing makes no sense...even in England with windy roads and little hills?
gblawson(gordon)

Gordon,

The British didn't road race as a sport, enthusiasts enjoyed 'hill climbs'. Very low gearing was helpful and MGs were particularly valued for their ability to climb hills others cars failed. Also, most roads did not tolerate much over a 50 mph speed. So in this regard, the low gearing was acceptable. But I have to agree, the cars are much more drivable with a 4.3!

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

I'll throw this into the mix. I've got the Skyhook and the stock 4.875 rear end. A 4.3 rear end might be nice but after driving about 600 miles last week at MG 2009 I don't think I'd get to use 5th all that much. With the blower she will pull on the flat up and probably past 5500 rpm. It will also pull light grades at 75. Steep grades will require down shifting Speed was down to 50 going up Vail pass but better than the 20 mph going up it last year without the blower. Runs at 75mph and 4200 rpm. What I have now seems to be a good combo for me. I'm leaning right now with a bone stock rebuild of the 52 TD just so I can see what it was really like when new. The TF was undriveable when I got so I really have nothing to compare it to.
LED DOWNEY

Gord Clark - have you been able to track down the company in Australia that's using the 78-79 Corolla 5 speed.

Do any of our Australian colleagues know of the company and have contact details?
Phil Atrill

Phil, while it may be a worthwhile conversion just remember you're going to be looking at a two year run of what is now a 30 year old transmission. I tried googling Corolla transmission parts and couldn't find any.
Gene Gillam

I got this lead from an excahnge I had with a chap in OZ about 3 months ago.

I'll bet if one of us contacts one of the big OZ clubs, we can get a fast answer.

I'll try one of my OZ contacts tomorrow

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

Hi from OZ

The company which provides the Toyota Celica 2T or 3T five speed kit conversion for MG TC-TD-TF and Y is Dellow Automotive Pty Ltd of 37 Daisy St Revesby, NSW

http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html

From the information I have, the conversion kit consists of Bell housing, Spigot bush, clutch plate, tail shaft yoke and gasket, and costs around AUS$850 plus freight.

Cheers

Stuart


SR Duncan

Has anyone had any experience installing/operating the Celica 2T or 3T Dellow Automotive 5 speed conversion kit?
Phil Atrill

Gene's post about "looking at a two year run of what is now a 30 year old transmission" is exactly what kept me from going "5-speed".
Somehow, IMHO, I can see somebody stepping to the plate and making a run of parts from "unobtainium" for a "T" series long before I see somebody re-tooling to make replacement parts for the 78-79 Corolla 5 speed!
Just a thought.
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
Wonder what the "ratio" of 78-79 Corolla's to "T's" on the road today works out to?!
David Sheward

Gordon..
Is your TF now equiped with a form of JATO rocket power? 4 minutes to Montreal from Jacques Cartier Bridge center span may be, but from Rockburn. Your tail must have been on fire.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

Sandy,

Not yet. But just watch me!

gac

Gordon A. Clark

Thanks for all the input gentlemen.

It looks like the Hi-Gear option is the route to go. I'm just awaiting a shipping estimate from the U.K. and then I'll take the plunge. It'll be nice to enjoy the Fall drives without a temperamental tranny, the periodic grinding of gears and the drone of an engine at high rpm.
Phil Atrill

Good choice...I was quoted shipping of 250 GBP and that's about what it worked out to be.

Gene Gillam

I have a YT but the same engine and gearbox as a TD. My gearbox was thrashed and after two expensive rebuilds which failed to solve the problem I opted for the Hi Gear 5 speed. Even if I wanted to I did not have the option of changing the rear end ratio. The YT has a 5.143 ratio and so far as I am aware there are no swaps available. Also I am in mountain country and as it is I often need 3rd and sometimes 2nd to negotiate the hills.
The Hi Gear 5 speed gives me the same gearing 1st to 4th, about 3500 rpm at 60 MPH and 4200 at 70 with no problem reaching there in 5th. I can even overtake at 55 up with no problem.
I was in the UK two years ago and Peter delivered it to me in London. Took it with me to Heathrow and Air Canada shipped it back as accompanied baggage. I saved about 12-1400 $ on the Moss price. Not sure if AC would be so accomodating now.
Anyway it is a huge improvement and you won't be sorry you made the change. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Terry, I have thought about going to England to pick it up myself. My wife is restoring a Victorian style baby carriage (her version of an MG T) and she needs to have the wheels restored at a specialist in Lincolnshire 2 hours north of London. The shipping costs for these alone is about $400 (across the pond and back). Add this to the cost of shipping the 5 speed and one plane ticket is paid for. it's beginning to make some sense for England to become this year's annual vacation destination.

Do you recall how much the conversion kit and 5 speed weighed? I may decide to make an inquiry with Air Canada or British Airways to see if bringing this back as 'luggage' is possible.
Phil Atrill

Phil: The gearbox and kit came in 4 boxes total weight 74 kilos, mostly the gearbox itself. We were flying business class so that may have made a difference. Also I left all the dealings with the AC checkin people to my wife, she is very good at getting AC to do things they might not otherwise do.However if you travel light the excess baggage charge will still be considerably less than the cost of shipping. Peter quoted me 400 pounds for shipping and at that time the pound was about $2.20 CDN. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Phil,
the kit comes to me in three large boxes. One with the bell housing and all the small items, the second one with the propeller shaft and the third with the ABS molded gear box cover. I have no idea on the weight but I believe it could be in the range of 60 to 80 lbs.
In addition you need the Ford Type9 Gearbox. You will bring it also from Europe ?
Good luck
Guenter
Guenter

Terry/Guenter - did any single box (amongst the four)weigh more than 70 lbs/32 kilos? British Airways will not accept any single baggage item weighing more than these amounts.
Phil Atrill

Phil: My guess is that the box with the gearbox weighed more than 32 kilos. I just remember the total weight. Peter will be able to confirm the weight of each box,but a couple of the boxes were quite lite. There were 4 boxes. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Phil,

The box my T-9 is in (as shipped by Peter Caldwell) is marked "Overweight" and 75.3 lbs. The box itself is 32 X 12 X 8 inches.

Gene
Gene Gillam

Hi Guenter,
Sorry about not replying earlier.
I'm not too sure what you meant by 'max speed'? I rarely drive above 3800 and then only for purposes of overtaking in 3rd and 4th.
There is plenty of pull in 5th with the 5 speed/4:3 combination and motorway cruising in the UK and elsewhere in Europe is easy and fun. I guess that mostly on motorways I run at 3250 which is just about 70. That gives me scope for acceleration for overtaking without having to change down even on quite steep hills.
I drove back on the Autoroutes from Clermont Ferrand to the UK, just south of London, in one go a couple of years ago. We were two up and with lots of luggage and spares, we'd been to the French European M.G. event.
It took about 12 hours including the Channel Tunnel crossing and with the 5/4:3 combination it was a wonderful drive. Even the Peripherique round Paris in the rush hour was easy with the usable 1st and 2nd gears.
On a recent moment of madness I was clocked at about 80 at 3800 in 5th gear. Plenty fast enough and still some power left, but I ran out of courage!
Mike.
Mike Christie

Mike: Now that I've read your post, I'm wondering why my TD wont "pull" in 5th gear above 65 - 70 mph. I've changed my carbs since the last time I was at that speed, but I'm not sure they were the cause. I'm running a rebuilt dizzy, curved and set at the specs given by the reputable rebuilder, with a pertronix ignition.

I'd be interested to hear from those that have both the 5-speed and the 4.3 rear end ratio as I do, to hear how their cars perform at speed in 5th gear. And, if mine is weak, the likely probable cause(s).

Cheers

Larry
L Karpman

Larry,
I have a hi-gear 5 speed conversion fitted with the stock 5.125 diff ratio. In 5th I am at 60mph at 3200rpm and I also run out of steam at 70mph at around 3800rpm in 5th. Although I have never pushed too hard as the engine is relatively newly rebuilt. Like Mike I tend to drive on the motorways at around 3200rpm but at 60 not 70mph I presume thats the difference you gain by fitting a 4.3 diff, would you agree Mike?

Regards Chris
C A Pick

Hi Larry and Chris,
I guess my set-up is just standard. The engine was rebuilt about 5 years ago and runs a little rich, I have the usual distributor which has been on the car for 40 years and standard ignition.
The engine certainly has power throughout the range, but I've no idea if it pulls beyond say 4000 in 5th, however I'm sure it would, albeit more slowly.
The major problem though is surely the fact that our cars are about as aerodynamic as a brick wall, and since the power curve drops dramatically over about 3500, trying to push that 'brick wall' is going to get harder and harder for our little 1250cc engines.
Sharp hills do require changing gear but the sort of long rolling motorway hills are no problem.
The 4:3 diff would make the difference I think Chris. But the real advantage of the 5 speed 4:3 combination is that the engine is comparatively low revving and thus not stressed. And keeping it around the 3000 mark reduces engine wear considerably I'm told.
The other thing I noticed when I changed the gearbox, apart from the decrease in noise, was the reduction in the drag that I got from the old gearbox.

Mike
Mike Christie

I have the Hi Gear conversion on my TD. I just did a 1500 miles trip in 4 days and I was traveling at 3200 rpm at 60 miles. The engine was relaxed all the way.
I installed another conversion for a friend and he is very happy. The conversion works perfect and as some said it is a 1 day job. Moving the engine forward in a TD is no problem.
Another friend in Colombia has the conversion in 2 TF's and he loves it, specially when travelling in mountain roads.
The Hi Gear was bought directly in England, along with the T9 gearbox. What I love most besides that it works perfect is that the car looks exactly as original.... No one notices the change until they drive the car and they shift....
I recomend the convertion to a 100% with no exitation. Do it !!!
Jose Vicente Vargas

This thread was discussed between 29/06/2009 and 07/07/2009

MG TD TF 1500 index

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