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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TD Front Engine Bearer Plate

The attached pic shows an original TD front engine bearer plate bolted together with one from a Wolseley 4/44. This is underneath. The bolts are to ensure that everything lines up perfectly and they will go back into the bolt drawer once the remaining holes are drilled. These exist on the TD plate but not on the 4/44. The clean pieces of metal cut off from both ends are the un-required bits of the 4/44. The actual rubber engine mounts themselves were removed first, the brackets cut off using a fine stainless steel cutting wheel and then the triangular pieces were removed. I now have two functional TD plates. I just need to locate the bit that holds the plate to the front engine mount. I can't take a pic of this in situ as the car is garaged a few miles away. One of the holes in the TD plate is ovalised, (not really sure why), so it will require welding and re-drilling. Cheers
Peter TD 5801



P Hehir

Is it by chance the dynamo pivot hole? they are quite often not tightened properly, especially on TF's.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I don't know Ray as this is new territory for me. I have the timing cover from the 4/44 and by using it and the painted/unpainted areas as a guide, I'm able to get a sense of which way is up, but yet to get my head around it. I'm going to compare the orientation of the plate with the one in the TD when I'm next over there. I'll have a better idea of the location/purpose of the offending hole then. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter as suggested the oivot hole for the dynamo is often oval led out due the the pivot bolt not being securely maintained. I usually will weld the hole up and and redrill it to the correct size.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834
W A Chasser

Thanks Ray and Bill. I'll check this out. Bill can you post a pic of the bottom engine mount area from one of your fleet of TDs? Or better yet the saddle or whatever it is that connects the bearer plate to the engine mount. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I found this pic in my archive. I'll try and get a 2nd hand #41 tomorrow. Ray does it seem like the ovalised hole you're referring to is for bolt #153? Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

In the pic above I've just noticed that there is an unnamed bolt and a clip shown just above the fan. This is almost certainly for the two overflow fuel lines that go over the top of the bearer plate and secure them both. A pic of the original clip in situ is shown here. Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

The clip and bolt is for the carb overflow tubes
W A Chasser

Peter Best angle I could get in situ. The bolt in question can be seen next to the timing cover and tubes. The clip is not in place yet


W A Chasser

I'm certain now Bill that it's for the overflow pipes. This also proves - to my mind at any rate - that the overflow pipes could never had originally been routed down behind the bearer plate and then emerge through the hole just above the clip. The two adjacent right angles bends would make this next to impossible. The assembly line was about speed and efficiency so it would be absurd to create the intricate bends needed to achieve the rear route. I'm convinced that if the bolt and clip in question had been identified in the drawing, the location of the routing of the pipes would never have been in question. The pic I provided above shows the hole in the bearer plate and the original clip adjacent. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

I've had a reply offline that suggests that the illustration on page 46 of the TD Driver's manual is incorrect! The cogent suggestion is that the TC, TD and TF ALL had the overflow pipes descend to the rear of the bearer plate. Apparently the pipes weren't bent to 90 degrees before entering the bearer plate hole, nor were they exiting at 90 degrees. The path was a lazy S thus enabling them both to be secured by the unnamed bolt and clip in the pic I posted of the parts drawing above. I do know that this has been thrashed about before but wouldn't it be nice if there was actually a pic from the production line proving the route once and for all? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Frank Cronin took some excellent photos of TF9052 some years ago
which confirmed many originality details.

The section on 'Engine Compartment Features', photo 072 clearly shows the correct path of the carbies overflow pipes going into the engine bearer plate hole, entering on the carb side of the engine and not over the top.

I too would ideally like to see a photo of an original , unmolested TD showing the path of the carbs overflow pipes. Perhaps someone has access
to a relevant Factory photo.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Why do some insist upon beating this subject to death? It has been discussed many times, and inevitably (except for a few) it's been agreed upon that the pipes travel as Rob described them above. Bud
Bud Krueger

I'm not sure it matters much and I'm a little reluctant to enter into an often rehashed how-may-angels-can-dance-on-a-pin discussion, but here's how my'53 TD looked when I rebuilt it a few years ago. I bought the car in 1957, so if the pipes were re-routed it was done prior to that time.
Joe


Joe Olson

I'm not sure it matters much and I'm a little reluctant to enter into an often rehashed how-many-angels-can-dance-on-a-pin discussion, but here's how my'53 TD looked when I rebuilt it a few years ago. I bought the car in 1957, so if the pipes were re-routed it was done prior to that time.
Joe
Joe Olson

Bud there has never been consensus. It seems that the American position (except for a few) is that the the pipes go over the top, just as is shown on page 46 of the TD Driver's Handbook. This is as I and and number of others on and beyond this forum understood the situation to be. This thread on the bearer plate was started by me and with respect I believe I'm perfectly entitled to make whatever observations that I believe will assist others in determining what was or wasn't original. If that means, in your eyes, flogging a dead horse, then so be it. Joe's pic certainly appears to show the pipes as illustrated in the DH. Again this matter can only be finally laid to rest once a pic from the assembly line is posted that clearly proves the original path. If you don't wish to engage on this one Bud, then don't... It's really that simple. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Probably one of the most ignorant posts I have read on any forum anywhere, Bud is a respected member of the MG T community.

Enough said.

Oh BTW, several illustration in the WS manual are wrong, they are not photographs, but artists renditions. One that comes to mind, the connection for oil pressure gauge takeoff.

I was at at a John Twist presentation on the WS manual, whilst it was amusing it confirmed that there were enough errors and idiosyncrasies that he could talk for over 45 minutes on just that subject.

BTW, Bud, well said.

Good night.
P G Gilvarry

Here is a link to Factory Photos that go close to confirming the installation of the SU over flow pipes:

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_heritage_pics.htm

Shame it does not show how the pipes are clamped.

If research reveals further details I will post.


Graeme
G Evans

Thanks Graeme. I've saved the pic and posted it here. Unfortunately I was unable to include the top of the bearer plate in this pic (as it disappeared when I cropped the image to remove additional material from my computer screenshot). But it is really clear in the pics on your post. The image from the gallery shows the route of the pipes. I really appreciate your post. It is in the true spirit of this forum, where opinions can be expressed without rancour and personal attacks. Much appreciated mate. :-) Cheers
Peter TD 5801



P Hehir

This is a better shot of the same pic showing what looks like the top of the bearer plate. It certainly appears that the pipes are forward of the front engine bearer plate, are they not? Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

The pic shows chrome or polished brass for the horn cover, is that factory for a TD?
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Isn't that just light reflecting of a really great paint job Ray? Looks like the end of the fuel pump is giving a similar look. These are TD factory pics showing TD's under construction. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Afraid not, if you blow up this image you can see the photographer reflected in the bottom of the cover. I was just interested to know if TD's cam with polished covers as they are on view. Not like the TF where they are put in a place where they are bound to get full of crud.
Ray TF2884


Ray Lee

I fear that this addresses exactly the issue many have talked about for years - that factory photographs illustrate one particular car or engine, and are not reflective of other production cars' features. Their purpose was not to document factory practice or detail procedures, but to permit the publicity department to have a stock image to use in a variety of places and ways.

Every original TD horn on an original TD car I have seen was painted black, so this photo cannot be taken as gospel for anything. The carbs and air intake manifold also stand out as being particularly highly polished, although I do not know their original factory finish. This might be a picture of a show car, which the factory did make and document.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

PS - FWIW, I think the overflow pipes angled down 90 degrees in front of the plate, straight down through the clip.
t lange

Just a further comment on the reflectivity of a beautiful painted finish. Stunning reflections are common in the 2 pack finished concours cars of today and some have a mirror like finish. Even my acrylic lacquered paint job permits a reflection in the garage with tangential daylight and I'm yet to block it with 1,500 to 2,000 wet and dry. The factory shot above was obviously taken outside in bright sunlight, within an hour or so of midday, judging by the reflection cast by the engine drain cock - and everything is bouncing light. I'm writing to the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust to inquire if there are any pics showing the carby side of the engine bay of the TD ON the production line. It appears from inquiries of those TC guru's who profess knowledge on such things, that the TC overflow pipes went over the top of the bearer plate, just as shown in the TD Driver's handbook. Of course we can theorise all we want and it may just be that we may never know, especially if an original factory pic isn't deemed to be proof enough. If I do get a response then I'll post it here. The plot thickens... Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Ray and Bill. I've acquired an engine mounting saddle and bolted it onto the original TD bearer plate mentioned above, along with the 4/44 timing chain cover. The ovalised hole is for the dynamo, as you both indicated. This is bolt 153 (see pic 02 June above) and shows a spacer (156), which is something that I was inquiring about on the 'Unknown Part' thread. I suspect that one of the two that I posted the measurements of fits here? Can you confirm the location and the size of the spacer? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Apart from the size of the spacer mentioned above I also need confirmation of the paint colour of the front engine mount saddle. Black or engine colour? I plan to see what's shown on CC's gallery today. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter, the saddle can be black or red. Black is what I go with. I’ll have to see if I can measure the spacer in situ tomorrow if you haven’t gotten an answer yet
W A Chasser

Thanks Bill. The paint residue on the saddle that I purchased was red (no sign of any black) so I was hoping for confirmation of that colour. As it could be seen as either part of the chassis or as part of the engine, either would appear to be correct. I then considered how it would have been assembled on the line and what would be the most efficient method. My feeling is it was most probably installed as part of the engine - just two bolts to do up rather than four - so it would probably have been painted engine colour. Been through most of the pics in the gallery on CC's site but no really conclusive 'barn find' answers. A few pics though of the overflow pipes forward of the bearer plate on more than one of the cars...
There isn't much difference in the length of the two spacers in question, so I'd be interested in your findings. Thanks again mate. Much appreciated. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

This thread was discussed between 01/06/2020 and 16/06/2020

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.