MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TD Mk II Manual Ignition Control

In the Mark II section of the factory Service Parts List, a Manual Ignition Control is shown with the four component parts and two modifications. One mod is to the engine breather pipe and the other to the distributor lever (whatever that is). Does anyone have this accessory installed on their Mark II or has anyone ever seen one? I'd like to see what the control looks like with some sort of factory type duplication in mind.
Jim Merz

Jim:
Have a MKII, which was pretty well stock when I got it back in '73? I have no idea what modifications you could make to the breather pipe. As to the ignition adjustment, there was never, to my best recollection, a "micro adjuster" on the dizzy, as was fitted to the TC and to one of my Y types.
Safety Fast
Paul
Paul Gaynor

Jim, you might want to get in touch with our Swiss member of this forum, Denis Baggi. I seem to recall that he has such a system on his TD.
Bud Krueger

Paul, I think the control might have been a factory supplied or installed accessory for a Mark II. That's the one I would be interested in duplicating. I agree with you about the breather pipe but that's what the book shows.
Bud, I believe you are correct because I have the same recollection about Baggi's control. I could kluge up something if I had a mind to do so as you know but I would like a peek at the "real thing".
I just cant seem to leave well enough alone. Always gotta have a project.
Jim Merz

Jim, Bud,

Paul wins the 'seegar'. The device you may be thinking of, was originally on the TC - a micrometric adjustment with a knurled knob to adjust the timing. It was part of a plate that sat between the distributor body and the block.

I checked all the catalogues but none even mentioned it. I had 2 TCs but can't remember.

Maybe an interloping TC nut can comment.

I saw a new TC distributor with it, for sale at Stoneleigh in April.

Whether it would work on a Mk II or not, is open to conjecture, but I'll bet a farthing that Bob Grunau would know.


Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Gord,I am familiar with the vernier type adjustment on the TC but that's not what I see in the factory TD Service Parts List. This control is listed on page R.4 which is the supplemental listing of parts peculiar to a Mark II TD. As I understand it, the control allows the driver to adjust the timing from the cockpit while driving along.
Gotta be a rare item.
Jim Merz

Jim:

Your thread caused me to go to the super secret archives and after a trip though the musty shelves, I found my copy of the Service Parts List. Mine is dated June 1958, however, at the rear was the referenced listing of bits associated with the control. The breather 'modification', must be a clip to steady the cable, (assuming it is a push/pull affair).

Sorry Gord, but they got us. Never saw such a configuration, but it could also be another of the mystery bits that got listed but never actually produced. I do however, recall a thread a while back on the subject. It could have been Baggi then as well. My recollection was also that no one had a picture. or specs to duplicate the beastie.

Love to see an original either in person, or print/photo.

Safety Fast
Paul
Paul Gaynor

I reviewed the archives and in Feb and August 1998 and in 2000, Denis Baggi refers to his own design manual advance however the link to pictures is no longer available.
Perhaps he will reply on this thread and update us.
Dennis
D F Sexton

My 1928 Model A Ford had "spark" and throttle levers attached to the steering column. The other end of the spark lever was attached to the distributor plate with a rod. When the spark lever was moved, the distributor plate rotated. This allowed the driver to advance and retard the "spark" to get the motor running smoothly at various speeds and over various terrains. It worked quite well on the Ford four banger.
Dick
RF Wacht

Jim,

I found a reference to the hand ignition control in Graham Robinson's "T Series - The complete Story." Page 113 mentions an article in Autocar, where the author borrowed a stage 2 modified TD from a dealer in October 1951. This car had the "special supplementary" control.

Maybe the original article has pictures of the modified car?

Anyone have a collection of period magazines?

Good Luck,
Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

I'll betcha that "speical supplementary control" is just the item I would like to see. I too am without a collection of vintage magazines. My wife already thinks I should have enough information in almost 40 years worth of TSOs!
Any Autocar magazine collectors out there?
Jim Merz

Evan--Page 113?
Jim Merz

Jim,

It's on page 113 of Graham ROBSON's (Not Robinson as I said earlier) book. It is section titled Maturity.

Does anyone have a copy of the "MG TD & TF Gold Portfolio 1949-55". Maybe the article is in there?

Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

Evan, my book is enttled "The T-Series MGs by Graham Robson. It was published in 1980 by Motor Racing Publications Ltd in England. There is no section or chapter titled Maturity in this one. Many thanks for trying, you get an "A" for effort. Back to hunting.
Jim Merz

Jim,

Hmmm. This book is dated 1998. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1861261799/qid=1068227765/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3833549-2639851?v=glance&s=books


Graham writes about the stage 2 car used to run from London to Scotland on a cool October day. The relevant part of the quote from Autocar is, "Long before we left Metropolis behind, it was obvious to us both that this was no ordinary midget; its acceleration in the lower gears was vivid, and the special supplementary hand ignition control proved valuable in controlling the tendency to detonate, which was noticeable in spite of Octol in the fuel..."


It looks like Graham has several books on every LBC!

Good luck,
Evan
Evan Ford - TD 27621

I have a 1954 Aston that has a factory installed manual ignition control. It has a handle and cable very similar to a choke control but with an ivory coloured center on the nob with the letter I in black. It acts directly to advance and retard the distributor. The owners handbook suggests that this control would be useful in case of poor quality fuel.
Tony
Tony Cove


To all of you.
Could it be the item on
http://vigna.cimsi.ch/~dbaggi/advance/
you are looking for.
thoralf
t g sorensen

Sorry Chaps,

... seems I can't keep my dirty hands off this one.

First, I can't connect to http://vigna.cimsi.ch/~dbaggi/advance/, or for that matter, to http://www.vigna.cimsi.ch/~dbaggi/advance

Philip H. Smith in his book " Tuning and Maintenence of MGs" on pages 53 and 119 mentions a device he refers to as a 'Bowden' device, that allows for manual control of advance/retard with the car in motion - common in the 'old days' but in this instance, fitted to a TD.

I'm not going to bore you with the details, but it does sound interesting when used, as he describes, "intelligently".

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Jim,in reviewing the Philip Smith book I also located a reference to the breather pipe in the factory options category. Page 156 lists an optional Lucas 4 VRA vertical magneto, Lucas part no ENM 2002. "This has a suitable advance curve for the MG engine. To fit, it is necessary to indent push-rod cover plate and move breather pipe elbow." Maybe this has something to do with your parts list.
Dennis
D F Sexton

I dunno Dennis. It would seem that since the mod is listed along with the manual timing control, I would think it would be part of that installation. But, who knows?
Jim Merz

.... hmm!

Jim/Dennis,

How come I missed that?

A magneto-like distributor is still available and they are shown in the Moss catalogue as a Mallory. Originnaly Mallory were allowed to re-maunifacture the Vertex-Scintilla magneto for early U.S. hot rods, but they found that they could make a good one without the internal spark generator, hence the modern-day Mallory. If you chose to install a current Mallory on your T-Series, again, be prepared to either put on the cast inspection plate, or put a dent in the (standard) pressed steel one, to accomodate the very wide Mallory distributor.

If however you are lucky enough to locate an early unit for the T-Series; it incorporated the Vertex-Scintella spark generator and was tall enough to clear the standard, pressed steel inspection plate.

But be aware that this unit was basically a generator, and put quite a bit of load on the cam gear that drives it.

I wouldn't reccommend a V-S magneto for everyday driving.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué
Gordon A. Clark

OK Gord:
We needed this conversatiion at the 108, or the Pickwick. Now I must once again delve deep into the parts archives to get out my Mallory Dual Points, still have 2 and the mags I have in the corner, thanks to Geoff Love, to see if they mate with your sage advice.
Paul
Paul Gaynor

Dennis has done a lot of research work for old Mark II magazine articles including the TSO. Although none of them described the installation or had photos, one author did present a new thought. Since in the '50s England and I guess European countries too still had low octane gasoline or petrol, maybe many of these timing controls would have been useful in those countries. What about it "T" lovers in Europe and England? Anyone over there ever see any of them?
Jim Merz

Sorry Gordon
New adr. Try.
http://vigna.cimsi.cim.ch/~dbaggi/advance/
Thoralf
t g sorensen

Thoralf, I tried that address but it said I was not authorized. Is it corrrect?
Jim Merz

Jim, remember this one? Wonder where Dennis Baggi is now? Bud
Bud Krueger

Deceased.
http://eng.di.unimi.it/ecm/home/archives/news/content/death-of-denis-baggi.0000.UNIMIDIRE-7745 Bud
Bud Krueger

This thread was discussed between 24/10/2003 and 20/09/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.