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MG TD TF 1500 - TD Radiator Shell

After an unfortunate incident I need to remove the radiator shell from my 1952 TD. The manual shows how to remove the radiator and shell as one unit . Can I remove the shell without removing the radiator? I do not think I will need to remove the radiator to accomplish my task. The car slipped off the jack and pushed the shell and bonnet slightly rearward. How do I do I remove the shell and let the radiator in place?
I do not have a major overheating problem. Should I take out the radiator and have it recored? While it will run hot on hills on a hot day it cools down on the down side. The water (?) in the radiator does look rusty. Your comments and experience is greatly appreciated.
Gary
GG Krafft

Wish I could help you on the shell, but I asked the same question to the BBS today myself.

As for recoring the radiator, you usually can't go wrong doing that, but you may just want to just have it rodded at a radiator shop. Rodding will often remove much of the buildup inside the passages to make the radiator effective again. Some folks don't believe rodding is worth it, but I fall in the other camp, as I have had good luck with rodding radiators on many other older cars. I only had to have one recored.

As for overheating, it really depends on the outside temperature, and how hard the car is being pushed, and how much time is spent at low speed and low revs. What temperature do you consider " a hot day?" When you say it runs "hot," what does your temperature gauge say? Are you looosing a lot of coolant on these hot days? Many factors to consider before you determine you have a cooling problem. Post as much info as you can, and you'll likely receive good advice as to whether you have a problem or not.
L Karpman

Gary, if you remove the rubber-like strip on the shell that catches the bonnet, you will find some screws that attach the shell to the radiator. And remove the cap from the radiator. Good luck and greetings, Huib
Huib Bruijstens

The shell comes off without removing the rad... those screw/bolts mentioned, plus the rad stays, headlight brackets (remove the huge bolts, then the little brackets sticking through the shell) It will slide forward/up and out.
Not sure what you mean by 'hot'... On hot summer days mine runs about 80/85... can get up to 90+ in traffic, but usually drops again when moving. At this time of year (spring and fall) it is 70/75 degrees.
If your coolant is rusty, have the system flushed at a rad shop and put in new prestone. Hold off coring/etc until you see what happens with clean new fluids. (unless there was damage from the fan when the rad got hit....)
gblawson - TD#27667

Gary,
If the water in the rad looks rusty, and you want to take the shell off, I would suggest removing the rad also, and at least have it professionally flushed and checked out. You will be half way there any way !! This might (will) save some work later on down the road. With the rad removed, you can also flush out the block with a garden hose.
How did the jack push the rad and bonnet rearwards ??

SPW
Steve Wincze

Gary,

Huib and Gordon are spot on about removing just the shell, but I think the radiator stays (the ones that go from the radiator to the firewall towers) can stay in place. Just the headlamp brackets and the little brackets and the cap need to come off to remove the shell. You will find it to be an peel up and back operation to clear the radiator neck. You will probably need to have a new rubber bonnet cushion on hand when you relace it as it suffers stress from going through all the holes. There are eight bolts (three down each side and two on the top) but you really only need the two at the top and two on each side to secure the shell to the radiator.

Since the Shell is located on the radiator, if the bonnet and the shell are moved backwards, the radiator must have been moved too, or something on the shell tore. Do you have the radiator mounting nuts and mounting rubbers in place below the radiator? A lot of owners find it too difficult to repace those items (easiest with the front bumper and front valance removed, and using shims to support the radiator while the mounting studs gradually poke downward through the support bracket). Somehow you will probably need to know if you can square up the radiator in order to determine what moved when the jack hit it. If the radiator moved too, then the stays are suspect at this point.

You can flush your radiator and block in place, but it is easier to flush everything with the radiator removed. One overlooked area of cooling on our cars is to forego the 50/50 mix of water/antifreeze and instead go with 75/25. You will have plenty of corrosion inhibitors with less antifreeze, and more efficient heat transfer (water has better properties than antifreeze) just make sure your freezing protection is OK for your location for winter storage.

good luck,
dave
Dave Braun

Gary,
Your comment :"The water (?) in the radiator does look rusty" ...just screams for time to flush...not only the radiator but the engine as well! Either doing it yourself or taking it to one of the "quick lube" places that have a back-flush machine. IMHO the small charge to have this done at the local Jiffy-Lube is well worth the cost. As I have said before I have dealt with it this way in the past as I have a lot of negibors with dogs (and ours) and I have a gravell drive. Doesn't take much to make a puppy sick (or worse) and near impossible to clean up a spill from gravell drive!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

I must clarify my comment above,,,, when I said that you could flush out the rad with a garden hose, I hope that it is obvious that all of the spent fluid is to be collected and disposed of properly!!!

SPW
Steve Wincze

Thanks for the help with removing the radiator shell. I'm going to try it, probably this weekend.
When it runs hot it gets up to 95+/-. This is on days when it is 85-95 outside and usually up hills. I don't rememember it getting to 100 but I do remembering watching closely. It comes back to about 85-90. It has not boiled over and I have not noticed any substantial loss of coolant--just an occasional topping off. On cooler days it run at a lower temperature, more like 75-80. I'm inclined to get it flushed out. While I could do at least the engine I'm sure it would be a real mess and hard to get rid of the waste. From what you have all told me it sound as though it is rusty but not running overly hot.
As to the "unfortunate incident",I had the jack on the crossmember and was lifting the front. The jack slipped forward off the crossmember and the car came down on the front pan between the fenders --ouch-- pushing the pan up and slightly back. I jacked it again, watching closely, and it almost happened again. It was centered fairly good, but not good enough, and it seemed that the jack rolled forward as it went up and did not hold the crossmember. Ever feel like a dumbs_ _ _?
Gary
GG Krafft

Search the archives about running hot, overheating, etc.- volumes have been written about that. If you are down to the bare radiator, it sure is easy to remove. Time to change the hoses too, as well as check the motor mounts, water pump, etc. My original radiator had been boiled out a couple times, but finally just disintegrated and had to be recored. Dave B is right that likely the whole rad got jacked up or something else bent other than the shell. George
George Butz

Two thoughts, Gary.

The radiator sits on a cross member attached to the front dumb irons with four bolt and nut sets. You need to look under there and see if that piece is still perfectly flat, or if the accident pushed it up in the center. Since it has slotted holes, it could distort and not take the dumb irons with it.

If your jack (with wheels, I'm assuming it's a trolly jack since it rolls) is allowing the car to slip off then the wheels and jack are too small, or your floor is too rough for the wheels. A smoother floor or larger wheels will solve the problem. I never liked jacking up a TD on the front cross member, instead opting for the joint where the A-pan mates with the chassis. I found the cross member is too thin and does distort under jacking. I always sweep my floor first, so the jack can move as the jack angle changes.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

This thread was discussed between 25/04/2007 and 26/04/2007

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