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MG TD TF 1500 - TD/TF Rear Brake Return Spring Position.

Hi All,

When fitting the front brake return springs,the factory manual is very clear in its diagram(M6 in the factory manual)of the holes in the brake shoes through which both springs go ie.through the holes in the shoes furthest apart.
However,the hole position for the rears is not so clear.I have searched the Archives and again did not find any specific information on this point.Anyone know what the correct spring hole position is for the rear springs?

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

R GRANTHAM

Rob - I've always used the same holes as on the front holes. Whether or not that is correct, I'm sure someone will let us know. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Not sure if it's right or wrong and I'm not sure if you can enlarge the image to see the springs but here is mine.


LED DOWNEY

And mine are the opposite of LaVerne's and match David DuBois'

But very nice work, LaVerne.

warmly,
dave


Dave Braun

To the 'Daves' and LaVerne,

Thankyou for your prompt responses together with the magnificent images.I guess this is one of the reasons why this TD/TF BBS site has gained such respect and recognition around the world. Before closing up the Brake Drums over the rear shoes,I will wait a little longer to see if anymore comments are made.Perhaps the springs on the rear also go to the furthest holes in a bid to guarantee the shoes definately snapping back quickly to the off position?

Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob.Grantham

i am not sure which is correct, but if you use the holes closest to the wheel center (the ones that would give you the greater spring stretch) the springs hang up on the bolts. regards, tom
tm peterson

Dave B. - Please e-mail me, the e-mail address I have for you doesn't seem to work for me. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Dave, you have mail!
Dave Braun

And my newly completed full brake system rebuild...

Picture is of the left rear brake assembly on my wire wheeled TD.

Equally of concern to me is that the adjuster was set to the fully extended position, meaning any wear of the lining cannot be compensated by additional runout of the adjuster. These are newly relined shoes. I'm somewhat disappointed.

Larry


Larry Shoer

My new shoes also resulted in 'no adjustment'... i bought the little adjustors from O'connor's and will install when i feel the pedal go down. These would be 'so' easy to make!
gblawson - TD#27667

Larry,

Because there is only one adjuster on the rear brakes it is not uncommon to have to slip a spacer into the adjuster to regain compensation. The fronts have twice the adjust available, so rarely run into this problem.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

larry, how can you tell where the adjuster is set? did you count the number of clicks as you set it or by the degree of rotation as you turned it? i cannot see through the small adjuster access hole to determine where mine is. regards, tom
tm peterson

I missed Gordon's comment,

Larry and Gordon, did you have your shoes arched to match your drums? After this procedure, it is important to keep the shoes and the drums together as sets. I had mine done that way, it was very inexpensive at the specialty shop I used.

dave
Dave Braun

Tim,

The original bolts I think you are referring to(ie.the ones that affix the backplate to the end of the reasr axle) have fairly shallow heads in relation to their diameter and the springs usually miss these bolt heads. However I must admit the front,larger spring runs very close to the bearing housing when the spring is set on the holes allowing most stretch.

Larry,

It sounds to me that you need either Oversize Stage I or Oversize Stage 2 Brake Shoe Linings to compensate for your Brake Drums that by now have probably been skimmed a few times thereby making the Standard Size Brake Shoe too small in diameter/thickness.Adjustment with these standard size shoes is then limited for the future.In Australia,you can get the Oversize shoes on request.They work perfectly.

Thankyou for your inputs to the rear spring question so far.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob.Grantham

Tom: I ran the adjuster to its limit and the shoes did not lock the drum. Stepping on the brake locked the drum, so I know the piston has the travel to operate. This raises the interesting question of how do you know when the brake cylinder piston has to travel too far and some other modifications are required? (The good news is that the piston didn't fall out of the cylinder and I didn't bathe the drums in brake fluid!)

I did not have the shoes arced (arched?) to match the drums. My visual inspection of the shoes indicated they were a very close match to the drums, so I decided to go with them.

Gordon: I've heard of these adjustors. Do you have any more information about them or a picture you could post?

I have another set of four shoes that can be relined. How would I calculate the thickness of the lining to request, as I now know the standard thickness is not thick enough?

Larry
Larry Shoer

Larry, this is a common problem, and I have had the opposite as well (too tight). I think O'Connor Classics had some adjuster masks with a welded shim on place some time ago to solve this problem. If you are all the way adjusted out, the initial break-in of the lining will allow it to be way too loose, with increased pedal travel, etc.
Springs: in a not so great picture, my rear springs are in the inner most holes, as are Laverne's. There would have been no way to stretch them if using the outers. George
George Butz

The rear drums on our TD have never been turned from the orignal ID and I sill ranout of adjustment while there was still a lot of lining left on the shoes. I got some of the adjusters with the 1/8" shim welded in place from O'Connor Classics http://www.oconnorclassics.com/index.html and now have plenty od adjustment left.

TM - As long as the adjust will lock up the wheel, everything is fine. When you run out of adjustment travel, the adjuster will just continue to rotate 360° without lcoking the wheel. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Thanks for the mention of O'Connor Classic Autos. I exchanged e-mail, spoke with Brian O'Connor on the phone, and have two adjusters on order. The details:

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the inquiry. I keep in stock modified brake adjuster masks. This is the four-pronged bracket that the adjuster cam sits in. We take good used originals and weld steel bar stock to the bottom side adding about 1/8". This allows the shoes to sit closer to the drum so you can get your adjustment back

Price is $10.00 each
Priority Mail $4.60
(Regular US Mail ~$1.50)
...
...
Thanks and best regards,

Brian O'Connor
O'Connor Classic Autos
2569 Scott Blvd.
Santa Clara, CA 95050
888-346-3647 toll-free order line
408-727-0430 voice
408-727-3987 fax
www.oconnorclassics.com
Larry Shoer

Those are the ones....


gblawson - TD#27667

Hi Rob and all - you're right about the lack of clarity as per. Workshop Manual diagrams for the rear brakes. It was something I noted more years ago than I care to remember, but the photos in the MGA Workshop Manual make it clear on very similiar shoes.

Where there are two adj. holes on the rear shoe the spring goes in the hole closest to the wheel cylinder/abutment, opposite to the front shoes. If you look in Fig.M8 in the Manual you can see that the spring doesn't go into the hole furthest away from the abutment and on the shoe you cannot see clearly, the same is true.

Therefore (sorry chaps !) Led Downey's image is as per. Workshop Manual, Dave Braun's is not. The other clue is that done 'correctly' the spring will be parallel to the wheel cylinder/abutment and sort of looks right !

If anyone is worried about it not being 'right' on their car I wouldn't remove the drum until you need to since I suspect it will work OK whichever holes are used.

Hope the above is of help,

Cheers John.
J.C Mitchell

I'd like to be able to claim superior mechanical apttitude but I just put back together the way it was when I took it apart.

LaVerne
LaVerne

John M,

You have saved me from having to reset the rear brake shoes-currently I have them on as per the MGA manual( I did'nt have an MGA manual to compare).

Tom Peterson,

Apologies for my 'typo' on the name,I was doing the thread return entry late at night and whacked in an incorrect letter! Your comment on clearances really got me thinking,comparing etc.

I have a fair deal of practical experience on TFs detail in particular but as the saying goes 'you never stop learning'about these incredible TD/TF wonder cars.

Again,thankyou to all who responded with their comments.Appreciated.

Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob.Grantham

My reasoning was exactly the same as LaVerne's!


Dave Braun

hi fellas, all of this brake talk compelled me to head to the shop. i see the "bumps" on my mask that fit into the notches on the brake adjuster were worn almost flat and so i removed them, drug out the MIG welder and added a 1/16" shim to the mask, added metal to the "bump" and recontoured to its original shape and added 1/16" of metal to the opposite end of each rear brake shoe (rather than 1/8" shim to the mask). looks great...we'll see how long the metal added to the bumps lasts. right now they work great.thanks for the inspiration. regards, tom
tm peterson

This thread was discussed between 07/06/2007 and 09/06/2007

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.