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MG TD TF 1500 - TD will turn over but won't start

My 1951 TD has been sitting up in the garage for quite a while. I last started it about 6 months ago. I didn't drive it then. I tried to start today and it will turn over but will not start. I took off the carb filters and sprayed them with starting fluid but nothing happened. I was expecting the engine to at least turn over. Any thoughts?
david kirkpatrick

Could be any number of things. Does the fuel pump tick? Check the float bowl valves aren't stuck. A loose HT lead from the coil is a usual suspect. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Mike O’Connor ALWAYS recommended you change the spark plugs when having difficulty starting an engine. This assumes you are getting petro through the carbs.
gl rombough

Yes the pump ticks, it is a fairly new SU electronic. But even if it didn't have gas wouldn't the starting fluid compensate for that? Yes I put in new plugs. I'll look at the coil tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dave

david kirkpatrick

Lift the Distributor Cap and 'flick' the points with a screwdriver and check for any spark. The original Lucas points last for a very long time.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Check the fuse has not lost it's contact in holder with standing. They check out ok when testing but the current pull from the starter robs power. My car would only start as I let go of the starter.
I found this when my TF stuttered or died when I indicated or braked, most confusing.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Power to coil is not fused, off the infused side of the A3-A4 fuse.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Your engine only needs proper fuel delivered in the correct ratio, compression, spark supplied at the correct time.. work through each of those and it cannot keep itself from running.

The fact that it has been sitting makes me think it is a stale fuel, no fuel issue.

Regards, Tom
tm peterson

Peter, I never thought of that, I must have disturbed something else while fiddling with the fuses.
Now out to garage to check all connections.
Ray
Ray Lee

David, mine was similar on last years start up. I cranked it a lot and it did finally start but really acted crazy. Back fired, ran rough and so on. I had a Petronix Igniter in the glove box that I never installed, so I put that in along with a new coil. Not sure what the problem was but it started and ran great. I'm thinking the condenser was bad.
Good Luck
Bill TD24570
Bill Brown

I will second the bad fuel idea. If you drain the tank you may find gobs of water. This happened to me. Sitting for long periods can also cause the fuel to varnish the SU needles. Before I leave the car now I disconnect the pumps and run the float bowls dry. It has made a lot of difference.

Jim
J Barry

Make sure your fuses are making proper contact with the tabs and that the fuses are indeed intact
W A Chasser

Wow folks. basics, basics, basics. Fuel, spark. Since it did not turn over with starting fluid, fuel is not the issue.

Spark is lacking. Check the cap and points (if it has points). Check you have current to the coil.

Since it started 6 months ago, it is likely something like stuck points, or as Bill listed, a fuse that is corroded or not making good contact.

Bruce Cunha

If you find it is lack of spark, Make sure your rev counter gearbox is not grounding the points

Regards, Tom
tm peterson

I'm with Bruce - basics first
You've tried starting fluid and no go so that semi rules out fuel
First move would be to pull a plug lead and see if you have any spark
William Revit

If it aint the HT lead from the coil or the tacho drive shorting on the dizzy, then Jim's gummed up needles in the carbies is looking good. I do like these 'who done its'. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Why would it be a fuse?

Ignition and fuel are not fused, get their power from the unfused side of the A3-A4 fuse.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Forget about fuses and stuff till you find out if it has spark at the end of the plug lead - no use looking at fuses and stuff if you have spark already------------!
William Revit

You have all kinds of suggestions, all wise. It's usually something simple.

First see if you have spark. Remove a plug, lay it next to metal, turn on the key and pull the starter to see if the plug fires (you may need 4 hands). If yes, then you have spark. Replace the plugs if in doubt of their condition. If no spark, track that down.

Then take off your air filter(s) and be sure the carb pistons are freely moving up and down with your finger. If free, check the enrichener to be sure when you pull on the cable, the levers and mechanism works.
If not, deal with it.

If nothing else was changed and you have those two, it should start, even with old fuel.

My $.02.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

I replaced the coil and still no spark. This is driving me crazy as I would like to sell the car but I need to start it first Any other suggestions?
Dave

david kirkpatrick

Remove the distributer cap and insure that the points open and close.
Also, on the 51, there should be a ground wire going from the locking bolt to the engine. Make sure its there and it is making ground. from one side of the coil is a wire going to the distributer, Is it there and tight?

Finally there should be voltag, 12 V, on the coil on the other terminal.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim B, Yes there is a wire from the coil to the distributer. Where exactly do I measure the 12 volts?

Dave
david kirkpatrick

On the lug on the coil that doesn’t go to the distributor.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim B, I put a meter on both lugs and they both read 13 volts

Dave

david kirkpatrick

OK.
That means you have voltage to the coil and (perhaps) through the coil. It probably means that at the instant you measured the voltage your points were open.

You next need to verify that the points close.
Easiest way is to remove the distributer cap and look at them as you rotate the motor shaft.
They should be closed with the timing mark at TDC and with #1 cylinder on compression.

If you remove the spark plugs it should be easy to rotate the crank BUT be sure to mark which plug wire goes to which plug first.

As you rotate the crank a voltmeter connected between the wire going to the distributor and ground will go from 13 v (12 V) to 0 volts again and again.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

If you have 13 volts on both terminals it means the points aren't contacting
This can be normal, as when the points are open that will be the result
If in fact the points are shut, it means they are not contacting properly or there is either a broken wire between the coil and distributor or the dist. isn't earthed properly=
Next step is to remove the cap and wind the motor till the points are closed, then measure voltage at the coil again, if you still have 13v on both sides then measure at both sides of the points themselves
If the result is 13v on the moving arm and 0 on the stationary side ,then the points need cleaning (no contact)
If you have 0v on both sides the lead from the coil to the points is open circuit
If you have 13v on both sides there is an earthing issue with the distributor
William Revit

I'm going to toss my 2 cents into this one. My TD wouldn't start. Had fuel, air and spark. Sanders suggested replacing the condenser and the car fired right up. I was stumped as I had spark. In an old 2015 thread I suggested going to Advance Auto and picking up one of these. It's the same diameter but about twice as long. Tight fit.

BWD G102AP
$5.85 plus tax. (2015 Price)

If you go to this thread in the archives you can see some of the pictures I took. I don't have the originals anymore. There's also a bunch of interesting stuff on ignition there.

https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2014050700495825157

Stuart
S Grimm

BUMP!

Did you solve the problem?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

No it is not fixed, still no spark. I made sure that points are set correctly. I put a new condenser ( a condenser from my MGA parts). Any other thoughts?
david kirkpatrick

Try This

Place the coil HT wire near the block, within 1/8"

With the points open, short the wire coming from the coil to the distributer, to a good ground.
Leave the wire on the distributer.
You can insure that the points are open by inserting a matchbook cover between them.
You should get a spark.
If not put a Volt Meter (VM) on the wire you are shorting. The VM should read >12V & <14V when not shorted and close to 0 when shorted.
If the VM reads that, then do the same with it on the wire on the other side of the coil, the wire coming from the 12 V source.

Let us know.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

One old trick is put the car in a totally dark location and with the bonnet(hood) up get someone to turn the engine over. It may be that there is a short somewhere which will be spotted in the dark. Once had a hairline crack in a distributor cap that was found using this method.
JK Mazgaj

David
Did you go through the voltage checks I mentioned a few posts back----results--?
It's no use whatsoever just throwing parts at it, you have to diagnose it
Any chance of a nice close up pic. of the top of your dist. with the cap and rotor removed
William Revit

Something that was not mentioned is the insulating washer under the points pivot post. If this is left out, the point set is grounded and will not create a proper connection. When changing the points, I have seen people forget to put the washer in and wonder why they cannot start the engine.

Picture in next post.
Lew Palmer

This is the picture of the points and the oft forgotten washer.


Lew Palmer

Good call Lew, a common mistake as you say, but David teld us earlier that he has 12v on both sides of the coil so a short to earth at the points can't be the issue otherwise he would have 0v on one side of the coil-------
William Revit

David,

Reading through this thread I am lost as to what has been and what has not been done, so we need to backtrack, Can you do the following:

1/ Ensure that everything is in place and is fully assembled.

2/ Unscrew the acorn nut from the centre terminal of the distributor cap.

3/ Hold the loose end of the wire (about a 1/4 of an inch) near a bare metal part of the engine.

4/ With the ignition on pull (or get somebody) to pull the starter.

5/ Check for a spark between the wire and the metal, while the engine is turning over.

6/ Report back your findings, we can then give you further instructions.



John
J Scragg

I had a similar problem this year. I think it finally came down to oil in the distributor housing. When I cleaned it up I finally had spark to the plugs but it would not start due to being flooded from all the trouble shooting steps I had gone through. I removed the plugs and blew air into each cylinder to clear it. Put the plugs back in and it ran perfectly. David, if you are in the Dallas area I would be happy to give you a hand with this.
P.W. Lester

P W I appreciate your offer, however I live in Beaumont, 90 miles east of Houston. Do you know my brother-n-law and his wife, Reed and Linda Yates? The are MG people and live in the Fort Worth area.

Dave

david kirkpatrick

David
"" William Revit
Tasmania

Posted 01 June 2019 at 12:32:45 UK time

David
Did you go through the voltage checks I mentioned a few posts back----results--?
It's no use whatsoever just throwing parts at it, you have to diagnose it""


Any chance of a nice close up pic. of the top of your dist. with the cap and rotor removed
A nice close up pic. of your dizzy with the cap and rotor button removed could help us
We just got one sorted out on the midget forum by this method
William Revit

I don't think this will help David's problem but I got tired of the hassle of replacing the failed crappy condensers that we get nowadays so I mounted my condenser outside of the dizzy. I don't think the electrons notice the extra 10 inches of wire that they have to travel through.

Jud
J. K. Chapin

David, Beaumont would be a bit far for me. I have met Reed and Linda Yates at TMGR events. Very nice people as are most MG people. You are getting lots of good advice here so hopefully you will resolve the problem soon. Safety Fast.
P.W. Lester

This thread was discussed between 15/05/2019 and 07/06/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

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