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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TD4834 Engine installation

Thought I would start a new thread to continue the build as the "TD4834 Engine Build Begins" was getting long. Today was spent installing the water pump assembly, measuring out plug wires, finishing the valve adjustments, re installing the radiator and modifying the right strut to clear my front air cleaner. Then spent half the day try to nut up the front motor mount studs. I tried BSF, SAE/UNF and metric to no avail. Tomorrow I will spent the day lifting the engine to clear the rubber and take it with me to the hardware store. I will either find what I need or it will be retreaded to something I can use. All I know is spending four hours on just that item taxed my patience today and kept me from other things. I installed the Gates belt that dave Dubois recommended in his tech article. With it in place the tach drive sits very close to the Mallory dizzy. I turn the dizzy 180 degrees to put the externally mounted confessor to the rear of the unit to prevent the tach drive from shorting it out. Tomorrow I will drill the dizzy shaft and install the drive gear and then get the ignition timing set.

I've installed a Group 27R battery since I am converting to a negative earth system.

I have a Hi-Torque starter installed. The instructions say to jump a wire from its solenoid to the motor wire if I'm using a remote solenoid. I am using the original but don't understand why the starters solenoid is even necessary for the motor to run on the Lucas unit? Comments?


For those who asked, the Taylor 8mm Pro Wires do fit the Lucas screw caps for the dizzy without modification. I'm using their TCW red wire which looks good against the engine as a slight contrast in color. But they have a multitude of colors to choose from.

I ordered a new dipstick from Moss and attempt to install it this AM but it will not go Into the tube but about six inches. My original appears to be a tad smaller in diameter and I don't think it is going to work. Has anyone had a similar experience with a reproduction dipstick? Comments?

Updated pictures will be on the MGTD Rnthusiast site on FB. Sorry I won't be posting pics here but if someone wishes to transfer them for me it would be appreciated.

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill - "The instructions say to jump a wire from its solenoid to the motor wire if I'm using a remote solenoid. I am using the original but don't understand why the starters solenoid is even necessary for the motor to run on the Lucas unit? Comments?"

I would go ahead and use the solenoid on the motor as it will make the starter switch on the TD last forever, by taking the heavy current load off the switch.
Cheers,

D W DuBois

Bill, I'm also doing a couple of engines and discovered the machine shops have slightly bent the dip stick tubes (pretty easy to do) on more than one of my engines. Yes, the Moss repo dip stick is chromed all over and a little tight when compared to the original ones; however, once my tubes were straightened the repo did fit OK.
Richard Cameron

Richard, what did you use the straighten the tube? I'm afraid to jam something in the tube and not being able to remove it

Dave, do I then run the solo kids in series? Lucas solinoid -> starter solenoid -> starter motor? How does that take the load off the Lucas unit? I'm not grasping the concept?

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834

W. A. Chasser Jr

There was no solenoid on the old critters- the cable yanked on the switch that had to carry full current.

You can install a standalone solenoid separate from the starter, like the old Ford style. I installed an old Ford 6 volt solenoid because it has a button right on it to engage the contacts manually. I can pop the bonnet, knock trans into nuetral, turn the ignition switch on, tickle the carb (singular) and push the button to spin it over while blipping the throttle. Our TD starts reliably with just a push of the button (electric switch button/no cable), but I like having extra options.
JRN JIM

Bill - use either the dipstick to straighten the tube, or a long Phillips-head screwdriver. You should see where the tube is bent.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Bill...the dipstick tubes can be removed and replaced fairly easily if yours is bent to badly to straighten in situ. They're just a press in fit.

As for the Hi-Torque starter....the wire to the built-in solenoid on the Hi-Torque needs power to engage the starter. I initially hooked mine to one side of the original pull starter switch with the other side of the switch going to the 12v powering the motor. Later I switched to a push button...so much easier to push than pull.

Gene
Gene Gillam

Gene, so let me see if I understand correctly. From the lucas switch one side has the wire from the battery and the wire to the motor. the other side of the switch has the lead that goes to the solenoid? I also have 2 wires from the main harness that attach to the switch, I believe on the battery side lug as well. Yes?

I've misplaced your Phone# can you Email it to me salsburyrocketman at yahoo dot com.

Regards

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill,
Thank you for the info on the 8mm ignition wires. Good luck with the start-up.

Cordially,

Jim Haskins 1953 TD
J. M. Haskins

Finally got the right combination of hardware for the motor mount block. 10m x 1.25. Seven hours fighting with it but now a new problem with the mount. I installed my hand crank to roll the engine over and the engine is sitting low for the crank handle to engage freely. Is there supposed to be shims between the mount and the frame for this purpose? None found with the car that yet aware of.

The Mallory dizzy shaft was drilled and a new cam gear installed. Dizzy now fitted and ready for an initial setting. Took the soft lines off for the cooler and tossed them. Absolutely worthless for my application. Moss should be ashamed of themselves for selling them. They will get an earful on Monday. Putting the hard lines back on so I can run the engine maybe tomorrow. Also not impressed with the Moss wire clamps for the hoses. Two were so tight to get on and I destroyed one of them today.

I need to still figure out the wiring for the Lucas starter switch and the hi torque starter. And make the carb overflow lines and set the floats. Once done I can put a gallon of fuel in the tank and test the system leaks.

I stepped away from the car and assembled my PLC 700 tri bar headlights.

That was the the only progress today.

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

You may need to replace the motor mount. You can move the bumper up a little bit, that may do it. Is suspect you will end up replacing the front mount. Unfortunately, Abingdon Spares is down now with the move. I have found their rubber products to be superior.
The wiring for the hi torque starter is easy. There is simply a jumper for the solenoid on the starter. When the original starter switch is energized, power from the battery is jumped to the starter. The jumper wire on the solonid of the high torque starter simply shunts power from the starter motor to the solonid to slide the Bendix gear out. That high torque starter would normally have power on the main lug all the time, and the solonid on the starter would shunt the power to the motor. This is not an issue with the solonid on the car. You will love the high torque starter, it will turn the engine over much faster, and with less current draw.
D. Sander

Bill I had the same problem. Just installed a bespoke plate under the mount because the crank wouldn't engage through the radiator cross rail. Raised it about 6mm from memory. Fitted the stabilizer bar last. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

BTW Bill I thought you may have a problem with the mount height & so I posted this on your other thread last night UK time, but you were probably under the car at the time. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Peter. I wished I'd seen your post from yesterday but I missed it. When I build the spacer I'm going to slot the holes so I can simply slide it in from the high / radiator side of the mount. Not sure the distance I need until I loosen the nuts and lift the engine, again!
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill,
You may want to put that mount off and give up on the handcrank for the time being. The frustration sets in when you raise the engine, the clearance for the steering becomes a real issue. I had to make a custom aluminum spacer that lets the handcrank engage and still not jam the oil pump into the steering column. The engine stablizier adjustment is then very critical, too. There's barely about 1/4" clearance with a lot of time spent making adjustments.

We went to our MG Club event yesterday, Stahl Auto Museum, 70 miles from home, when I realized the generator was not charging the batteries (yes, plural). I imagined charging the MG with jumpers while in the parking lot, and using the hand crank for starting (push start is option, too). It is nice to think the hand crank is there for emergencies and entertainment value. Turned out, the screw for the positive battery cable came apart after 5 years, so the generator WAS running, and we were driviing fine on it without the batteries, until we hit a stoplight and then the engine died.

Bottom line, the hand cranks are handy, but you might postpone the engine position until after it has a few mile on it, and you have time to waste.
JRN JIM

Jim the Stahl Museum. , is that related to Jerry Stahl of header Fame. Jerry made the worlds best headers for 409 Chevys and where the winningest header on the drag strips. Also huge in trans am racing. My HS buddy is restoring a 1969 Trans Am Camaro that was well documented in the day. It was a privateer car built by Dick Gulstrand in SoCal. Was a feature in several publications in the day and was road tested on LA freeways by one of the editors. Was very humorous reading using the car as a grocery getter
W. A. Chasser Jr

http://stahlsauto.com/index.cfm

I don't think there's any connection. Ted Stahl is the owner of this collection and now displays them as in a museum presentation. Reminds me of the Tom Monaghan/Dominos Pizza museum here decades ago.
JRN JIM

My Moss order arrived late yesterday so I went and burned the late night oil at the shop. Enrichener and clutch linkage done

Today I had hope of starting it up but sadly no. After wiring the starter, installing the temp sender and fitting battery cables, and filled the radiator with straight water to check for leaks. My new rear head plate leaks so that will be coming off when I drain the water, a few hoses wept so I cranked down on those stupid wire clamps that are undersized and a PIA. I think I will toss them all and put the European band clamps on.

I then tipped the fuel can and put 2 gals of Sunoco race fuel in the tank. Immediately fuel was dribbling from the tank. I managed to snug them more and alleviated that mark on the floor. turned the key on and the pumps came to life, primed and started filling the carbs. That's when I noticed that sparks where emanating from the stainless fuel lines at the fittings. I immediately shut the pumps off just as fuel began to weep from the top of the float screws and banjos. Really? everything was tight, snugged them again and still again. I wouldn't think those fiber washers required so much torque. Seemed quite excessive but eventually got them to quit leaking. I obviously need to add an additional ground so the fuel lines aren't the path to ground. The rear float chamber top nut will not tighten down properly. I ended up adding a flat washer to it but will take another to work with me tomorrow and change it out to see if that cures the problem. Also, one of the pumps still has offers a very slow light tick, but I see no other fuel leaks at present and no fuel drooling out of the air cleaners.

Next came the starter. My pull cable wire and sheath are 6"s too short. Okay, I'll pull it with my finger topside. Starter spun the engine over great! I had set the static timing very roughly but as she spun I got no fire. Positive side of the coil to the Mallory and negative side to the battery. Keep in mind I've change to a negative ground. Hmmmm, that's odd but not a surprise from this engine. Spun the engine a few more times and now I have a puddle of Valvoline 50 w.t hitting the floor. Re-torque "ALL" the big hard lines on the pump, filter and block. Gee, again with what seems excessive. Just as well though, as I forgot to install the line at the gauge. At least the oil hadn't made it to the cockpit yet.

So that's where I ended the day as ME and my Aussie have dog agility class tonight. tomorrows another day and with only the gauge, a ground strap and, to figure out the no spark issue she should be going "Rumpity rump" tomorrow afternoon.

I do have a question. Has anyone bought a replacement starter pull cable from Moss? Did it live up to expectations as looking and functioning as original? Does any one have an original spare that they no longer need? I hate to buy a new cable and have the knob not look like my 60 year old bakelite.

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Hi Guys ,
A friend down under here is restoring a 54 TF 1500.
Big concern ,he doesn't have a 1500 motor .I know they are the proverbial "hens teeth" but does anyone have any suggestions .
And be nice !!!
b murphy

Another miserable day fighting with the engine. Day 2 of attempting to start it. Yesterday after a run of leaks ranging from water, to fuel and then oil I managed to only get it to pop and stumble a few times before I called it a day. Today I couldn't get even a cough or sputter. I set it at TDC, took #1 plug out and rotated the Mallory til the plug fired to get my initial. A nice wide blue spark mind you. Reinstalled the plug and spun it over.... Nothing. I had set the jets at twelve flats per the SU carb manual. After running through all the checks several times I put in a call to Lawrie Alexander for advice. He said set the jets to six flats for H carbs. Did that with no change. Plugs were wet pulled all the plugs and spun it over to clear the cylinders. Try as I might there is fire but no explosion. Not through the exhaust or the pipes.

We had a club meeting tonight and spoke at length with Lawrie and others. All my settings seem to be correct. I will buy a new set of NGK B7ES plugs in hopes that I had washed the current set out and they won't fire under compression, though I feel having all four fail is unlikely. I'm at my wits end with this cantankerous XPAG. It is not going to beat me. I will prevail whether it likes it or not.
W. A. Chasser Jr

Don't forget that you have to get TDC when #1 cylinder has just finished the compression stroke. It is easy to get it 180 degrees off, and sometimes it won't do anything then. I wait until the pulley mark begins to heave into view, then put a finger to plug up #1 spark plug hole. You can feel and hear the compression if it in the right place; if not, go 180 again until you see the mark. THAT's the correct TDC.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
t lange

Bill. Did you get the issue with the crank height corrected? Just wanted to add that the radiator support can go on backwards. It is sometimes difficult to tell but if it is put in backwards, the crank will not align properly with the crank.
Bruce TD4139 Cunha

Maybe do a quick check of compression. If pressure is low, it could be cam timing is off or valves not closing.

A vacuum gauge may seem old fashioned, but that's us. Will also give clue if cam timing is off or significant vacuum leak.

Wet plugs. You know you were getting some fuel. Try disconnecting the fuel pump for a while as a process of elimination. If it doesn't fire after a bit of rolling over, it'll draw some gas out of floats and you should eventually be running down in the lean spectrum... so a little fuel sprayed in the carbs should show some fire. Thus, if no fire then, one can assume it is not carbs & air/fuel ratio.

I could say check your timing order, but at least #1 cylinder should fire.

Good luck!
JRN JIM

Well it's running though not quite dialed in. After talking with Lawrie we had decided to go back to the ES needles. As I was removing the needles I realized I had push them all the way in the piston and did not set the step flush with the piston. Decided to give it another go with the GK needles. Turned the jets back down to 6 flats and tried again. Started much easier but still loading up at idle. Engine still hunting at idle as well. Turn the flats up progressively to one flat with little change. Will go back and try the ES needles on the next go around. Reset the initial timing and bumped it a tad. Now I have fuel drooling out from the front float bowl mounting bolt. Stopped for the day. Tomorrow I'll pull it off and smear some Permatex on the rubber seals and reinstall. Set the idle up a bit so it will run and let it get up to temp so I can toss some Stop Leak in the radiator and hopefully seal up my porosity issue in the Laystall .
******************************************************************************
Another thing I noticed related to the bowls. My spare MGA carbs mounting have a different arrangement than my current carbs. Currently a banjo bolt with a flat washer, rubber seal, the bowl, another rubber seal and then the carb body. The MGA s has a stud ( for the lack of a better term) above the bowl is stacked th rubber seal, a flat washer, a nut a fiber washer then the carb body. My question is could the current arrangement be the problem with the rich mixture and loading up at idle. It seems with the nutted arraignment that the bowl in essence sits lower on the body vs the current arrangement on the engine. This may be tricking the jet with a higher "theoretical" float setting as the level in the bowl would be higher in relation to the jet. Even though the floats are set at 7/16.

Any comments, thoughts or suggestions?

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bruce. I have not corrected the engine mount issue yet I have the crossmember with thicker circle for the crank handle forward. I don't know how else to describe it I'm pretty sure I got it in right. At least that's the way it came off the chassis when I got it. Not to say the bonehead PO didn't install it wrong during their botched attempt at restoration.

Cheers

Bill Chasser jr
TD4834
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill,
I'm afraid that radiator support bracket is on backwards. There's been a great deal of dicussion that can be found in the archives. It's not the end of the world. It positions the radiator bottom off just a touch, but can be lived with. The wrench will access the nuts a lot easier with the thin flange forward.
JRN JIM

After fiddling more with the SUs I found that I had installed the metering rods incorrectly as I had pushed them all the way into the pistons rather than setting them flush with the bottom of the piston. I reset the jets at six flats a restarted the engine. A Bit of a change in that it didn't load up as fast but the issue persisted. Next I changed out the bowl mounting hardware to what was on a set of MGA carbs. that had the engine settled down a bit more. (The MGA float bowl mountings had a nut between the bowl and the carb body, effectively lowering the level in the jet. The engine is still loading up at idle but I was able to idle it down to around 1000 rpm though it would still load up. I have since determined that the new mounting hardware for the bowls is incorrect so I will switch it back. During the last runs I developed leaks at the bowl mount rubbers and tried to remedy it with a smear of Permatex Form A Gasket which the race fuel immediately washed away. The drip became a drool so no further tuning will occur until I can order gasket sets. I will take the carbs completely down and go through them once again. These MKII carbs had been supposedly overhauled but I doubt that at this point. I didn't pull them apart when they were purchased before installing them other than to change the needles to GJs with 090.

Have ordered what I needed from Moss no further engine work until Thursday. Will reinstall the bowls with the MK IIs mounting banjos and start over


W. A. Chasser Jr

This thread was discussed between 02/05/2015 and 09/05/2015

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.