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MG TD TF 1500 - TF 1500 survivor on ebay

Item# 390880165278

Looks like an honest survivor to me.
J K Barter

Engine bay is in a darker red hue, and the fender piping has been painted over. Could this have been an autumn red car with an MG red respray? Nice car.

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan,

Really enjoyed your astute view of the 'original' TF
on eBay. I have spent some months looking at the MG Red
issue and the under bonnet area of this car I believe is
the original MG Red! As you say,the outside of the general body panels seem to have been repainted in the brighter red.This has in the past,and still is,a common shift from the truer, original darker red colour.

The MG Red colour on TFs I believe has often been described as 'Autumn Red' even from owners of very original untouched(panel paint wise)!! My research so far has found that the colour is actually 'MG Red'.The Factory MG Red panel colour was far richer compared to the perception of many.

The slightly brighter red colour was used only on the dashboard for TFs.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

R GRANTHAM

Original spark plug connectors.
Correct plastic/vinyl sleeves to the loom and tacho cable by the fuse box.
Nice panel gap between right rear guard and rear splash panel.
But still needs a light restoration imho.

Matthew.
M Magilton

A very original looking car, but it appears to have some serious wood issues with the bottom main rail, at least on the passenger side.
Jack Long

This car should make an easy restoration job. The question of correct MG red still confuses me. In the two original TF sales brochures I know of - both being coloured leaflets, there is only one MG red for the body mentioned. The pics in these brochures ( se pictures) are of course heavily retouched photos or just drawn and painted by an ad artist.

But: The colour they show is a very bright red, and nothing like the maroon engine bay on Ebay. I find it hard to believe that the factory so consistently would present their new cars with colours so far from reality in their sales brochures. So my question remains; Did Abingdon deliver both a darker maroon colour (Autumn red) and MG red , which was a darker hue of red than post box red, but nowhere near maroon?
I was only two years old when the last TF rolled off the Abingdon assembly line, but someone out there remembers , or knows?

Attached: Brochure pics + my 54 TF, resprayed of course, in correct MG red??

regards

Jan


Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Another

Jan Emil Kristoffersen

And another. Check how the co-drivers neck is brutally flipped backwards due to the fierce acceleration induced by the mighty 1466 cc engine...

Jan Emil Kristoffersen

And my car, MG red ?

Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan, some of those prints are one-colour prints, so they were limited to the red ink. Brochures are a very doubtful means for determining a colour. Even 1950's colour photographic prints can fade and distort.

Personally I believe that only one red was used on TF's despite the two names.

I think a good reference is TF9052 in Gallery on The Original mgtf midget site which is a car that has not been repainted.

Your car looks a good TF red to me.

I have attached another original-paint car that I photographed here in Australia that some will have seen before.

Matthew.

M Magilton

I guess you are right about the one colour print, actually those happy people depicted have been able to get a maroon half tonneau on their TF! And BTW, smoking a pipe while driving was definetely a part of being cool and hip.

Those TFs that turn up restored in a deep maroon claiming to be "autumn red" should then be considered not original in spite of their beaty in combination with a biscuit interior.


regards

Jan

Entirely off topic:

News reporter: " Mr Gandhi, what do you think of western civilisation?"
Mahathma Gandhi: " That would have been a good idea."
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

"co-drivers neck is brutally flipped backwards due to the fierce acceleration induced by the mighty 1466 cc engine..."

damnitall Jan, just spit my first cup of coffee all over my keyboard.....
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

Abingdon MG, the inventors of the whiplash neck injury...

I guess Nigel Shiftright is also troubled by neck pain due to repeated hyperextension traumas in his beloved TC.

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Nigel could only have been written by an MG enthusiast!
Just brilliant.

Matthew.

M Magilton

In Anders Ditlev Clausager's book "Original MG T Series (the restorer's guide to MG TA - TF) he refers to MG Red as being the same as a UK letter box or public telephone box, known as Post Office Red, which is a rich red just like the photo from Matthew Magilton (Australia) above. This book claims to be the definitive guide to correct colour schemes and, indeed, the entire car and is pretty detailed,

Moss Europe offer a "Reno Red" for the TF but I have found it has an orange tinge to it compared with my car, which is much the same as UK Post Office Red.

Neil.

TF1500, TF19772
N D Wallace

The firewall shade is the best example I have see as a recent image.

The image I have shown is of a YA painted about 16 years ago in MG Red.

The two samples are from different TF1500's, one is the underneath of the battery box from one car and the louver panel from another car.

These are a lot darker like the firewall when you view them by eye than my image shows, this seems to be a common problem as the composition of the red paint photographs differently and lighter.

I wonder if the red on the exterior of the Ebay car is also darker when viewed by eye?

Reno Red is too orange as Neil has stated. Deep maroon is as stated too dark. Mathews TF is photographed in the shade and looks closer to how my image actually looks. Look at the door hinges, they show darker than the body and closer to the bonnet side.

TF9052 in the Gallery on The Original MGTF Midget site in my opinion has been repainted or touched up as there are many references in the photographs that show more recent painting.


Rod Brayshaw

the square red sample is identical to the previous image of the two TF panels and the YA.

The colour book sample is Autumn Red.

I have concluded some time ago and again more recently that the TF production was predominantly MG Red.

Rod Brayshaw

And again.

Rod Brayshaw

Those two in the TF1500 look like they are running late to "D" Day.

Jim
James Neel

"TF9052 in the Gallery on The Original MGTF Midget site in my opinion has been repainted or touched up as there are many references in the photographs that show more recent painting"

I have known TF 9052 since the early 1980's, and have spent hours examining the car in person. The paint has never been touched up, and is the paint it left the factory with. The car was placed in storage when only several months old, and did not see the light of day for over 20 years. In the time since emerging from storage, it has been driven about 100 miles a year, and has only been wet once.
The owner literally has an obsession with preserving this particular car. I'm curious to see what the references in the photographs you are referring to are.
David
D. Sander

From images of TF9052

I have been unsuccessful at copying the images from the web site so I cannot enlarge or add arrows to explain my comments.

240-242 tank end plates were never painted this way over the raised chrome edge.

052 & 069 tie bar black looks to have been chipped and painted over, why at the low claimed millage?

157 & 171 newer paint edge on the nailing flange. original paint by the nails. A primer edge is visible on the flange in 171.

170 damage tear on firewall rivet flange, how did this get damaged without any outer panel/body and paint damage?

138 & 145 at about 7-8 o'clock from the headlight there is a semi circular line up from the wired edge, weld?, patch? not usual.


Original outer paint from the factory would be a combination of cellulose and enamel. After all this time they usually do not match exactly like this car shows.

There are more areas like firewall weld repairs but I need to copy the images and add arrows.

Rod Brayshaw

Hmmm... David I purchased my 1951 car in 1969 believing it was an original MG Red car & had it stripped to bare metal & repainted Ivory in 1971 as I much preferred that colour. I recently discovered that the car was in fact originally Ivory! It was resprayed red sometime between 1967 & 1969. My point being that a great deal can/could/may have happened to the car in question (TF 9052) at the hands of any of the owners (including the original purchaser), prior to your association in the early 1980's, (TF colour code notwithstanding). This must include the possibility of it having been completely repainted. Unless of course TF 9052 actually is a genuine one owner car & the owner doesn't have a mendacious bone in his body. Food for thought. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

On the true survivor cars, the paint on the gas tank end panels is as TF 9052 is, with the chrome only being masked off on the flat, and the lip painted.
This car is still owned by the original owner, and he has documented the history of the car very well. As I said earlier, the car has always been garaged, under a car cover and has only been wet once, when he could not get home before the rain started.
I have examined the car very closely and can find NO evidence of the car ever having any body work done. His story matches his documentation, which also matches the car.
The paint on the wings has a slightly different gloss than the tub and the hood.
David
D. Sander

Rod, the end plates are quite correct on 9052. These plates were not masked, the paint was applied at an angle so that no paint appeared on the chrome edges except the hidden edges, so the paint goes all the way to the knife edge (not stopping at the valley). See my attached pic of the original paint on my car showing the hidden edges painted over.

I suspect the paint damage to the black tie bar occurred when the water pump was overhauled at some stage. I would not expect the water pump seals to have survived after all these years.

Bottom flange dirt could have accumulated between rub down and respray at Morris Bodies branch. There is also some wood preserving black on the flange just to confuse things.

Pic 170 shows some rough tin snipping to get the firewall flange to fit.

The patch on 145 is probably pooled undercoat from the first dip when the guards were suspended. I had the same on my car before I resprayed my guards.

Matthew.

M Magilton

Thanks for the picture Matthew. I was looking at some of my photos from the GOF NY TF Survivor last year.

This is Todd Hammond's Ivory TF with original paint.

I cropped the photo for a better view.

What is unique about 9052 is the owner who bought the car brand new is still living in his early 90's so there isn't any mystery what the "previous owner" may have done with the car compared to other cars out there that have had multiple owners in the car's life. If you have questions, someone can still ask him.

As David said, owner of 9052 took meticulous records. Everything is documented. I bet when David was presented with all of this, he too was blown away. I am sure David saw the original bill of sale from the dealership in Long Island, NY, Factory warranty card, with the owners name typed on it. Everything is neatly put away in plastic inserts compiled in a presentation book. Just like the car, the paper looks brand new, never folded, no creases, and no wear. Viewing all this was better than looking at the car.

I'm not going to type a long response but if you would like to know more, please see my comments on the webpage for a history of the car.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/TF9052/Thumbnails/mgtf_tf9052.htm#comments


Frank Cronin

Use this model. Right click the picture and copy the image url.

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/TF9052/Thumbnails/thm_TF9052_058.jpg

Then take away the
Thumbnails/thm_
bit to get

http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtf/Pictures/TF9052/TF9052_058.jpg

Once the picture is displayed by itself you can use the right mouse button and copy the actual image to put in a paint program

It because I use a fancy tool to show the image in a window. Makes it a bit hard to copy the picture.
Christopher Couper

And just to be sure: A number of us looked the pictures over and when we had a comment we put it in a little flag on the picture.

It shows up on the right side of the image in a little (i) character. Click that for additional observations or comments from the team that reviewed the pictures.
Christopher Couper

This thread was discussed between 08/07/2014 and 11/07/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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