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MG TD TF 1500 - TF Tool box lid

My 54 mgtf tool box lid is in three sections. The middle section has 4 holes in it. There is nothing to bolt to underneath the 4 holes. Is there a piece of metal that goes beneath the middle section? Do I attempt to bolt the middle section to the lip beneath it that holds the lid in place?
Ed Eastman

Ed,

The tool box on my TF has 4 holes in the lip that correspond to the 4 holes in the lid. The lid was directly bolted to this lip and had no metalplates or brackets to further support the narrow middle section.

Bill Tutty
TF9901
R W Tutty

Hi Ed and Bill,

I suspect originally the Toolbox Lid on TFs was affixed(not bolted) by four(4)self-tapping,slot head,small setscrews.If you look closely at the top perimeter edging of the Tool Box itself,you will see four(4) small holes into which these self-tappers enter.
On a very original body tub I have,the self-tappers are evident.
They are 3/8ths inch in length,the head diameter is a tad over 1/4 of an inch,and the shank diameter a little over 1/8th of an inch.I am sure someone will indicate what 'gauge' this would therefore be. I am not a 100% sure if they were originally painted or just left plated.Painted screw heads to match the car panel colour looks neat.
Can anyone else out there confirm in their experience the question of self -tappers versus bolts(threaded shank and nut)? Were TDs different in their fasteners here compared to TFs? The factory may have opted for self-tappers here as once the white felt lining was set/glued in place within the Toolbox,getting a lock washer and small nut on the threaded shank may have been more difficult.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").


Rob.Grantham

Hi Rob:

Self tapping....

Cheers,

Jim
Jim Rice

Rob -

Self tapping on both TD5902 and TD29744

Jan
Janson Hurd

Self tapping, not Phillips, definitely not painted. Underside of the lid was black on all TF's.
When I lifted the original black felt from the floor of my sidescreen box I saw the paint shadow from where they laid the tool box lid for painting.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Hi Matt,

Agree with the self tappers and the underside detail of the Toolbox Lid. Just to clarify,I gather when you say "the original black felt from the...." this refers to the off white colour of the original felt lining that over time tends to go a greenish,black colour with the inevitable oil/grease infusion coming off tools,the Jack,and other parts the owners use to carry in this area of the car ?

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob.Grantham

My TF had four very small brass machine screws and nuts. Round head sloted.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

My '55, HDC46/9882, has Phillips screws, painted. And it's all original as far as I know (with only 17k miles). Perhaps they changed over at some point? It looks to have been painted on the car to me, as well as the screws.

See the attached picture.

Dave


D Leonard

Rob, I was referring to the black felt in the "sidescreen box", not the off white felt in the tool box.
I dont think the tool box lid could have been painted in-situ as the lid would have glued itself to the box.
Maybe this is one of those details where there is more than one correct answer?
Good photo Dave, I remember drooling over your car when it was on ebay in '05. Does it still have its original toolkit? Photo?

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the clarification-I was in Toolbox 'mode' when reading your comments but of course you were clearly referring to the sidescreen box re the felt colour as your comment indicated.Spot on.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob.Grantham

Hi Matthew,

Yes - I still have all the original tools. Anything you would like a photo of, just let me know. Most remarkable is it still has the factory exhaust on it! The muffler is a bit rusted out on the bottom however - have to sort out what to do with that at some point...

Dave
D Leonard

Dave,

Is your TF a 1250cc or a TF1500 ? If it is a genuine 1500,can you tell me if it has a 'Day/Night' interior mirror ? Thanks.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

Rob.Grantham

Hi Dave,

Just noted your TFs chassis number and year of manufacture in your comments above and obviously you do have a 1500 !

Rob.Grantham
Rob.Grantham

Thank you Dave. A shot of the tool roll and the tolls laid out would be great. I would also be interested to see the grease gun and the jack. If your car has a day/night mirror then you should see either Lucas or Wingard on the tab, and is the back chrome or painted gold? Rob and I have seen them in two 'flavours'.
Another question (I hope I am not driving you nuts): Is the red paint on your dash panel the same shade as on the body, or lighter?

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Hi to all - interesting thread which raises the question again as to whether Phillips heads were increasingly used towards the end of TF production, or intermittenly from time to time on earlier cars ! My Nov. 54 TF 1500 (HDP46 7973)has Plated Phillips screws like Dave Leonard's but who knows whether mine are 'original' ! It is a puzzle as to why they are painted - in my view they look better painted but I cannot see the factory 'lad' being asked to touch up such small screws as was allegedly and believably done with the inside heads of the much larger fuel tank strap fixing, Phillips bolts.

Cheers John.
J.C Mitchell

My May '53 TD has black slotted machine screws screwed into the rim of the tool box top.
gblawson - TD#27667

MG TF HDC 6688 1954 Orig/Unrestored.
Mine are round headed Phillips drive, painted red, approx 1/4" head dia. I'm not going to disturb them for the rest of the details. Dave your screws are correct.

Hey! Matthew, I've got those paint overspray shadows in my storage floor.
Must have been the same guy doing it.

Colin Stafford

I have to admit, I'm not sure how the screws got painted, but they sure are... Perhaps it was painted with the screws already dropped in the lid, then installed?

Matthew - my mirror says "Wingard" on the tab - in VERY small letters, and the back is chrome.

The red paint on the dash panel is not the same shade as the body. In the daylight, it's clearly a shade lighter - almost more MG red than Autumn red if that makes sense. Another mystery - perhaps the dash was painted independently of the body tub> Are others the same way?

I'll take some pictures of the tool kit, jack, etc when I have a chance to get them in good light. It doesn't look like the jack or grease gun have ever been used.

Dave
D Leonard

Colin; yes I have seen this paint shadow on other unrestored cars too, which has me scratching my head over painted screws.

Dave; so Wingards are found over your side of the pond too? I have one on mine #9097. I suspect these were made under license from Lucas. Probably not actually fitted to the car untill it was unpacked from its crate.
I have seen two unrestored cars over here with the dash as a lighter red than the body. I believe the bodyworks were under instruction that the dash and scuttle underside must match the upholstery. I have never seen an unrestored TF with a contrasting dash/upholstery. I would bet that your red dash is the same shade as the dash in my Birch Grey TF. Good luck with the photos.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Dave, The red dashes on TF's are not body color. I believe the dashes AND the glove boxes were a different red than body color. A bit brighter as you describe. If my memory serves me well (really a long shot) The dashes and glove boxes on TF's were either green or red. Neither shade was body color. And I too have the overspray for the tool box cover on the rear wood deck panel. Originally a right hand drive U.K. car, my car was originally almond green metalic. The green dash and glove boxes were a different shade of green. No metalic.

Dan H.
Dan Hanson

Dave, I would definitely like pictures of your toolkit. lvbatalltel.net Thanks.
Larry Brown


Hi All,

Our TF1500(9177)here in Western Australia has the "Wingard" interior mirror with the tab for the Day/Night change.Was a very original car before stripping commenced.

Cheers
Rob.Grantham

Rob.Grantham

Here is picture with pretty true colour of our dash.

re: rear view mirror, mine is a "Desmo". It came with the car and I have no reason that it was ever replaced.
Colin Stafford

Dave - I like the idea of spraying the screws whilst dropped into their holes but just don't see it being done by the factory. The paint would tend to come off whilst the self tappers were installed. One thing is for sure and that is that there is seldom the need to remove the four screws and with the bonnet on they are not particularly visible.

I've come to the conclusion that they probably were touched up with a small paintbrush after installation and they certainly look better merged into the background. Phillips heads are easier to drop a small amount of paint into and I've said before that this might be another case of some cars were painted and some not depending on the operative !

Cheers John.
J.C Mitchell

Dan, yes the green dash was a sort of aqua green to match the aqua green upholstery, not the bright apple green as seen on restored cars so often today. I have some pics of this dash. Also of biscuit dash/upholstery interiours.

Colin, yes your Desmo should be right for your 1250 TF, but we are not certain when the day/night mirror was introduced, must be early 1500, but not the first batch of 1500's which was before your car.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

I have an early TF (TF1487) and my toolbox lid has 4 small brass screws the same as Dan's TF and they are original as far as I can tell before the restoration 15 or so years ago.
Wayne
WayneS

Oh and by the way I seem to remember on this forum many years ago there was an ex MG factory worker at one of the concourse events in America who mentioned that they just grabbed anything they could get off the shelves and from the stores at the time of assembly to keep the cars rolling so two cars coming out of the factory at the same time may not have been exactly alike as far as smaller details are concerned. I think it was indicated that he was amused at people being obsessed with correct detail at concourse events.
Wayne
WayneS

Wayne - good point re. experiences of ex factory worker and something we all need to remember in our search for 'originality' ! There is no doubt that there were specifications set out by 'the management' at MG as in all organisations but operative variations on non critical applications did occur sometimes forced on them by temp. shortages of small components. This is why for example different sizes of bolts are not unusual from new and not always the work of a PO ! Paint supplies came from different manufacturers and slight variations in 'original' colours occurred from new.

Not much is ever related as to the experience of ex MG workers - it would be very useful if this could be remedied whilst they are still with us !

Cheers John.
J.C Mitchell

This thread was discussed between 09/06/2007 and 17/06/2007

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