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MG TD TF 1500 - Thoughts on aftermarket M/C and rear W/C's

Having completed the conversion of the front brakes to disc, my attention turned to the M/C and rear brakes. I was shocked/perplexed/surprised at the condition of the rear W/C's. They were full of rusty watery sludge on the lever end which kind of poured out. How it got that way is a mystery. I don't drive it all that much, and never in the rain since being restored 20 years ago. The M/C and W/C's were previously refurbished by White Post. I do wash the car occasionally, but never train the hose on the backing plates, and the rubber boots were installed properly, and still in pretty good shape. Has anyone had that same experience? Is there a trick to keeping that area and the W/C's better protected? In addition, the M/C reservoir had a thin blackish sludge in the bottom. I don't know how to account for that either!

While I ponder those problems, any thoughts to using an aftermarket M/C and W/C's in lieu of new Lockheed TRW, or AP components...or sending all to White Post again to refurbish? The ones I have do not have any identifying MFG name on them. The aftermarket ones do not have rebuild kits, but then again the condition of the ones I currently have now may be non-repairable, or cost more to repair than buying new.

Jim
Jim Rice

The first thing to do is pull the MC and disassemble it. Was the MC sleeved in brass or stainless steel? Soak the MC casting in carb cleaner overnight and rinse it off. If the bore is clean with no pitting or scores simply flush the remaining parts with Brakekleen. Inspect the rubbers and put it back together. You can buy new rubber cups at your local parts house.

You will need to thoroughly flush the hard lines. I use Brakekleen as a flush after blowing out the lines with moderate air pressure. Wear eye protection and wrap a rag over the far end to contain the expelled fluids. Repeat the flush and air pressure until the lines are clean and dry

Caution make sure you use eye protection to prevent blowback. The rag will help contain the exhausted fluids so the brakleen doesn’t damage painted surfaces Have soapy water at the ready to clean any surfaces just in case.

I would replace all the rubber hoses. Repeat the inspection process with the rear cylinders. If the bores are pitted/scored send them to be refurbished with sleeves or scrap them for replacements. Note the replacements will likely need some massaging so that they slide freely on the backing plates. When refilling the system use DOT 5. NOT DOT 5.1 !!!

If you want a replacement MC my choice would be Lockheed, TRW in that order. Stay away from the generic Chinese crap.

Bill Chasser
TD/c-8151
W A Chasser

I've found that over time most master cylinder reservoirs develop a thin layer of black residue. Never has seemed to affect brake operation.

The rusty watery sludge in the rear wheel cylinders is more of a mystery unless the car has been driven through a flood.
John Quilter (TD8986)

Brake fluid (Except DOT 5) is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere.
J Stone

I'm surprised it lasted 20 years if you run DOT3 or 4 and don't drive so much.
WIthout flushing the system, you generally have issues after a few years.

As Bill. Use dot 5. No flush and no problem for 15 years.

Laurent.
LC Laurent31

The M/C is a Lockheed. Good to know the black residue may be a common occurrence. Perhaps from using DOT 3/4? I had been using DOT 4. A couple pictures of the W/C's attached and, from the looks of it, different manufacturers. White Post did the refurbishments. They were sleeved in brass. Not cheap either. $80 a piece in 2001...and they were not as bad (rusty) as these are. Like I said earlier...driven occasionally on weekends when the weather was nice and always garaged. If this is a hydroscopic cause, I'm definitely switching to DOT 5. The disc brakes are new, will be installing all new brake lines, and will specify DOT 5 when I have White Post re-do the M/C. Given what they charged last time for the W/C's, I may just buy new rear W/C's.

A question on operation. When you use the handbrake, does that move only one shoe? The lever does not seem to actuate in a way that moves both shoes.

Jim






Jim Rice

Jim,
It does only activate one shoe but the cylinder slides in the back plate. This transfers the action to the other shoe, this is the same movement as the hydraulic pressure.
when fitting new new rears it is sometimes necessary to relieve the cyl body to allow free movement.
Ray TF2884
Ray Lee

The sealing on the rear cylinders is pretty much non-existent. Water/moisture can get in around the lever pivot pin, the boots don't come close to sealing around the levers, and the outer piston has no true seal to the outside of the casting. Years ago it made sense to sleeve, but not now. All of the MCs are effectively repros now, as the internal design, castings, etc. are all different. . White Post sleeved and rebuilt my MC years ago and it is still perfect. It appears they used non-stock parts- definitely the outer bellows is a real industrial piece rather than the flimsy original. Have always used DOT 5. George
George Butz III

I did talk with White Post this morning. Despite having sent the M/C and W/C's to them 20 years ago...they said they are covered under their lifetime warranty. So other than the round-trip shipping cost they will recondition as normally done to all of them at no-charge. I made it a point to say I don't think the issue was caused by workmanship and would pay for repairs due to normal use...but they didn't blink an eye or hesitate to say they are still covered under their warranty. Who does that???? I think George called the cause correctly. I'll send my W/C's to White Post as they are covered under warranty, but it begs the question...if one had to buy new...would you spend $70ish for a new brand name W/C or about $20 for a new aftermarket W/C knowing the moisture penetration/corrosion is going to happen regardless? BTW...White Post said the current cost for a first time refurbishment of a W/C is $85. $225 for a M/C. They will do them using DOT 5 if you want. I'm going that route this time.

Jim
Jim Rice

This thread was discussed between 26/04/2022 and 27/04/2022

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