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MG TD TF 1500 - Thread for needed courage

I had my car running like a clock, cold and warm, reaching with no sweat 5,700 rpm (horror) at over 140 km/h. I just had to change the wire on a manual advance system which turns the distributor from the dashboard - what for, you might say, just for fun, I'd answer. Everything seemed OK until I went for a ride: car stalls, does not develop power, makes awful noises, missfires, stops and barely made my hill home.

I know I have to recheck the advance which is probably off - I have a stroboscopic light for that - and I may not need anybody's help, but I felt like writing this because I am so unhappy, just before I go about taking the distributor off and redoing the work.

Thanks for possible patience and sympathy, while I deserve insults, Denis
Denis L Baggi

Denis,
We are all hopeing that is is just a dizy/wireing problem,,,

SPW
Steve Wincze

Denis,

By wire, do you mean operating cable? I always thought the purpose of a manual advance was to allow for starting (retarding the spark) so the engine would fire at the proper moment instead of working against the person or starter cranking the engine. Then, the engine would be advanced to a smooth operating position, and when under constant load, advanced more. I can't imagine that a person would be able to adjust the advance better than a properaly acting manual advance mechanism, which is afterall, working off engine speed.

Does your mechanical advance have any provision for automatic or vacuum advance as well?

good luck,
dave
Dave Braun

Denis,
BTY, I visited the web site of your town of Lugano,,, It looks very very interesting! I wish I had the time (and money) to take a vacation there and help you get that OD into your car !

SPW
Steve Wincze

Thank you Steve.

Dave, yes, I meant a cable. First, in those old carburettors there is no provision for vacuum. Second, the idea was to change the advance in function of the temperature of the engine and of the speed at high rpm's. I could (again in theory) see the improvement on a "tapley", a British instrument of the 30's which measures acceleration, hence force and power, based on a pendulum in a bath.

I can gladly send you details of all that, or post it if you prefer. It used to work.

Denis
Denis L Baggi

Ah, I understand. Thanks for the offer of the information on the tapley. I've read about them, but never seen one.

The vacuum portion of the advance in distributors so equipped takes effect after the centrifigal effect has run out. The additional advance creates improved fuel milage at highway speeds in cars which are able to sustain highway speeds at low horsepower requirements. Cars with low Cd, high rear end ratios, decent bore to stroke ratios. Kind of the opposite of our TDs and TFs.

Denis, I'm not saying that such a modification won't improve your operation, but I will be curious as to what you report!

warm regards,
dave
Dave Braun

Dennis:
First of all dont blame this problem on the oil change you made and that has your car smoking.!!!!!
Why don t you try the static timing and from there on you begin setting your car. Back to square one.
Do you have the static timing theory ??
Jose
Bogota, Colombia
Jose Vicente Vargas

Thank you Jose. No, the oil change was an excellent idea, I have had the same pressure both when the car is cold and hot, which is what I wanted.

No problem with static timing, though I have always used a strobobospic lamp and it worked fine. But I am on the right track, I extracted the distributor a few times and the car won't even start! I get back to it tomorrow.

Dave, that modification did improve operation, to the point that one I anticipated advance so much that I burnt a piston! Through and through! I have it in a proud display, those are the stupid things one must go through to learn. I later set up the control so that it could not happen! But there were times when adjusting the advance on the run did make a difference, letting the engine run better.

Thanks everybody, I'll let you know.

Denis
Denis L Baggi

Denis - "...car stalls, does not develop power, makes awful noises, missfires, stops and barely made my hill home." That sounds very much like you blew a head gasket between two cylinders. I did that on several different cars and it sounds like the whole world is coming to an end. The last time it happened to me was in our old Mazda pickup truck and I drove it, witll the accompaning noise and limping to my favorite shop for repair and the owner said he heard me coming when I was still two blocks away :). Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Thank you David. Maybe it's just hope, but I disagree: about two weeks ago I had the same symptoms, and after some adjustment to the advance and to the mixture, it went away. Let's see whether that happens again! Right now the car is not running at all!

Denis
Denis L Baggi

Denis, have you tried changing the rotor?

For good courage I can recommend "Dutch courage", but not before a test-drive ;-)
Willem van der Veer

Thank you Willem. No need to change the rotor, the spark is there! This is the advantage of a strobospic light, it shows you that the spark plug gets the voltage without your having to get electrocuted!

No, I did not have time yet but I will find out when the spark occurs, obviously if the timing is off there is no way the "poor" engine can fire!

Regards, Denis

P.S. I take Dutch courage with a large glass of genever and a small one of Heineken.
Denis L Baggi

Bad weather and rain today, postponed it to tomorrow.
Denis L Baggi

First, thanks to everybody who put up with my saga, but I was really sad when my TD stopped working.

But now I got it! Oh, I am so happy! Car is running perfectly, just waiting to revv up!

First, I remembered the saying "9 times out of ten, combustion problems derive from the electrics, not from the carburetters". Second, it was easy (silly me):
car was running -> stupid denis plays with the advance -> car stops running well. So?

Now this is something that luckily won't happen to most of you, if you do not play with ignition advance. I found ount just a few degrees - like, say, 30 or so - stop the car. It has to be 0, as all books state (see the advice of Chip Olds the TSO) and then you can play just a few degrees around. So now I will be more respectful!

David, I never blew a head gasket and while I have heard a lot about that, I wonder how that's possible. I did all possible "bad" things to my car, burnt pistons, etc., but the standard gasket in copper and asbestos has always resisted anything. Anyway, thanks, but luckily it was not that.

If anybody is bold enough to want to play with the advance and needs instructions on how to build a variable control, send me e-mail - with the variable quality of fuel you might find it useful!

Thanks again, Denis
Denis L Baggi

Denis, it is easy to blow a head gasket. In the last year, 3 of the memebers of our club have had that happen. Mine was due to a supercharger being installed. The others just blew from time and use. The head gasket is not as strong as one would think and usually blows between cylinders where there is not a lot of space or along that outer edge whare again the distance is around a 1/4 inch or so from the edge. I now run a solid copper head gasket in my 51 and it is really good and was not that much more expensive than the one supplied by Moss Motors.
TRM Maine

Thank you. I always wanted a solid copper gasket, but Moss used to have only the one with round holes, instead of the banana I need. Can you tell me where you got yours, or if you had it manufactured for yourself, as I once wanted?

Thanks again, Denis
Denis L Baggi

Well, all is well that ends well. It's a pleasure to drive a TD with a well-tuned XPAG. And it even stopped smoking! Though I don't know what effect a proper tuning can have on burning oil! But Neil Cairns does tell to expect some blue smoke at start, as long as it goes away...

Thanks again for the patience of those who read me.

Denis (bursting with joy)
Denis L Baggi

This thread was discussed between 12/08/2007 and 18/08/2007

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