MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Tips on removing my TF gearbox?

Any tips on the final steps to remove my TF gearbox with the engine in the chassis? Probably simple answers, but this is all new ground for me.

> My puzzlement is about how to separate the gearbox from the engine "taking care not to place any load on the drive gear shaft and clutch centre."
> And how to support the front of the gearbox while sliding it back enough to remove it through the cockpit
> Should I remove the shift remote control?

This thread in the archives gives a lot of information. Dave DuBois suggests replacing the two top bolts in the bellhousing with exhaust manifold bracket studs to help guide the gearbox back onto the engine. Would this also help in removing the gearbox? But of course I don't have the studs. Are the bolts metric? (I doubt it.)
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=20051004113701801

Here's what I've done -
+ put the car on jack stands under the frame and a-arm pivot
+ removed the steering wheel
+ removed the seats and floor boards
+ removed the gearbox cowl and the drive shaft tunnel
+ removed the drive shaft
+ disconnected the speedometer cable
+ disconnected the ground strap
+ disconnected the clutch operating lever
+ disconnected the throttle spring an supported the accelerator out of the way up under the dash
+ removed the floor board supports
+ removed the bolts from the rear mount to cross member
+ removed the inspection cover on the bellhousing - will use the hole as a hand hold
+ exhaust and breather pipe were not connected to the bellhousing
+ supported the rear of the engine with a scissor jack and board

I hope to coerce some club members into helping me this weekend. Looks like a two-man job + sidewalk supervision.

Thanks for your help. More questions to come as I get deeper into my project.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Hi Lonnie. Looks like you're ready to go. Leave the remote as is. I sat on a milk crate with a good grip on the gear change remote & my son on his back under the box to help support the weight as I pulled it away from the engine. I tried to ensure I pulled the box straight back without any up or down movement that could stress the mainshaft. A simple two man job. Maybe you could pass the box to the sidewalk supervisor just to make him feel needed. Takes about 30 seconds once the bolts are removed. Grab a piece of cardboard (from the obligatory beer carton) & push the bolts through as you remove them to record their locations. This ensures they go back where they came from. Check the manual to ensure the PO had them in the correct place & eyeball them for any sign of damage. The engine & bolt threads can be cleaned out with a tap & die if need be. It's an easy & straightforward task. You'll be fine. Enjoy the beer! Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

PS. The threads are fine metric.
P Hehir

PSS. You should drain the oil first so it doesn't go everywhere when you lift it out.
P Hehir

When you have undone all the bellhousing bolts you can sometimes split the unit from the block by stomping on the clutch pedal. I have done this alone but an extra pair of hands would be useful. Mind your back.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Lonnie, the threads are the ubiquitous M8x1 thread. The studs are sometimes handy, but are not unique. Just get a hold of some long'ish M8x1 bolts and grind the heads off. Screw them in where the top bolts (10:30 and 1:30) would normally be slide the gearbox back over them. Here's an image of using the studs. They'll provide enough support to handle the weight as you wiggle the gearbox. Bud


Bud Krueger

Lonnie - The studs are mainly for hanging the gearbox on while installing it, making it easier to get the first motion shaft in place. I don't know that they will help in removing the box (I never used them for removal). As Bud noted, the studs are 8 X 1mm. Moss should carry them. It is doubtful that you will find them at Lowe's or Home Depot as they are an obsolete size. Cheers - Dave
D W DuBois

Thanks guys. I'll order a couple of studs or long (headless) bolts from Moss before I reinstall the gearbox.

I asked some members of our MG club to give me a hand this weekend.

>> Will I need help removing the clutch and pressure plate? If so, I'll ask the members to help me while they are in my garage. Or, can I do it better by my self? I'll be replacing both plus a new release bearing.

The reason that I am removing the gearbox is to replace the rear case that has a broken mount. Hope that I will only need to remove the remote control and the gear selectors to do the swap.

Lonnie
TF7211

LM Cook

You should be able to handle it Lonnie. Note which way the driven plate is installed i.e. which face is to the flywheel. The WSM spells this out. Most people take the opportunity to replace the driven plate when the box is out as most of the cost/time in this task involves removing the box. Make sure you have a clutch aligning tool handy. Borrow an old mainshaft or the tool from someone in the club when you reassemble. I've had the box in & out a few times & have never had to use the studs. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

While you have the box out replace the spigot bush. Minimal cost involved and may save you some grief down the track.

Graeme
G Evans

Here's two photos on how I repaired a broken rear mount.

Regards
Declan

Before



D Burns

After



D Burns

Thanks again, everyone. I have only been inside one transmission in my life ... a TR3 in the '60s when I was 17 years old, so I'm a real dufus. You guys are giving me the confidence to charge ahead!

A club member will loan a clutch aligning tool to me.

I will install a new pressure plate (Moss 190-120), 8" clutch disk (Moss 190-140), rear mainshaft bearing and guard (Moss 125-900 and 441-180), rear case felt seal (Moss 121-300). Don't plan to remove anything except the rear case.

> PETER - Am I correct that the "clutch disk" is also the "driven plate"?

> GRAEME - What/where is the spigot bush?

> DECLAN - I previously saved your photos and photos of similar fixes by other BBS members. Your photos and description of the fix for a broken mount are good. I was going use them as a guide to fix my broken mount. However, a member of our club sold me a rear case with an intact mount. I've been driving my TF like a sissy for a year because the transmission was only sitting on the rubber mount and not secured to the cross member. Looking forward to my car being whole again.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonnie,
When you are refitting the rear end casing you have to be a bit careful with the felt seal. I install the felt seal in the casing and then push the gearbox output flange in twisting as you go and from the inside push the felt seal over the flange with a long drift so that it sits correctly and snugly inline with the bottom of the flange and is not distorted. When in position I fix a cable tie around the flange to stop it moving or sliding down into the casing. Then slide on the casing and flange as one unit.
Regards
Declan
D Burns

Lonnie,
While we are on the subject. I have attached a photo of the rear lip seal about three years ago. It works a treat-no leaks. If you are interested I can provide an engineering drawing or even the parts if you can't make it yourself or have it made.


Regards
Declan



D Burns

Declan, I repaired my rear motor mount the same way. Hope it holds up.

Bill
TD24570
Bill Brown

Hi Larry, You should have waited until after the Bok Tower tour Saturday, should be a beautiful day. We were there a couple weeks ago and the camellias were in full bloom with some early azaleas as well. Are you going without the TF? George
George Butz

See http://www.ttalk.info/gearbox_rear_seal.htm for Jeff Brown's approach for the seal. Bud
Bud Krueger

Hi George -

I know that the drive to Bok Tower in my TF would be great. Jo Ann and I may go in her BMW.

I couldn't put off repairing my transmission any longer because I work real slow and I'm finding more things to do as I go, so it will be a while before I'm back on the road.

Just gotta make sure that I am roadworthy by GOF-South April 17-19. I saw that you have already registered.
http://www.gofsouth.com/

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Declan and Bud - thanks the ttalk link and for offering plans and parts for your improved seal. I'm going to use the stock seal that I bought from Moss. No time nor skills to make the improved one.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

That's correct Lonnie. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Hi Lonnie

I just did this last summer. And it was much easier than I thought. May already have been discussed but I supported the engine with wood blocks. I used a small plant stand (Board on small casters) strapped a scissors jack to it and lifted the gearbox just slightly. Damn thing slid right out. I could lift it easily out thru the passenger door. I replaced the cluster gear. The whole episode was pretty simple and fun. And this was my first time.

Peter 54 TF
Peter Dahlquist

Hi everyone -

SUCCESS. Some members of our MG Club
http://www.classicmgclub.com/
came over today to help me remove the transmission from my TF.

20-minutes talking about how to do the job.
20-minutes removing it.
2-hours talking about cars.
Great day!!!

> Peter H. - The beer box did it's job ... I inserted the bolts into it in the order that they were removed from the bellhousing.

> Peter D. - I didn't have a roll-around plant stand, so we took off half of the handle of my 3-ton floor jack; placed it under the gearbox and pumped up under the drain plug; then rolled the gear box away from the engine.

I used my friend Will Bowden's suggestion to remove the inspection cover at the top of the bellhousing and used the hole as a handle.

I can't get the pressure plate off of the flywheel, but that's a subject for another post.

Thanks to everyone.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Reactivation the thread:

I like the studs to get the weight of the box as it slides back, I have a large area on my trolley jack to will have it under the box and facing the right way to roll back with the box on top.

Now to find M8 x 1.00 x 100mm bolts to decapitate as studs. Amazon has them, looks like a 5 pack is the go.

Wish me luck.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

I tried the stud method and it failed! I wound up bending the studs with the weight of the tranny. Getting it evenly is not easy!! If I had 5 good men or a tranny jack maybe, but I did not, sigh.
Ed
efh Haskell

My jack is a motor cycle arrangement that I think will support the box fairly well.

It has a large support area.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Home Depot has 8x1 bolts that work fine after you grind off the heads. I've done this a few times and have yet to bend one. Bud
Bud Krueger

I see some 50mm ones, they are the longest, picking up 2 tonight.

Found 100mm at Bolt Depot, they will be here early next week for the reinstall.

50mm is 2 inches.

Thanks,

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Stripped out the interior today, one drive shaft bolt is refusing to budge so I will have to take serious steps to remove it. Will order new ones.

Looks like I will have to create some protection for the brake pipe that runs across behind the gear box.

Looks like I don’t have to lift the engine gearbox very much once I undo the 2 bolts on the mount.

Would I be better to lift the rear of the unit and block the sump on wooden support?

Are 2 inch bolts long enough to support the box as it slides rearward? Or should I wait for the 4 inch bolts?

Thanks.

Peter



P G Gilvarry

My TF is left hand drive, so I didn't have to deal with the brake line.

I've removed and replaced my gearbox three or four times since my original post. With the floorboards out, a friend and I can do it in less than 30 minutes.

Good luck with the bolts on the U-joints. Not much room for a wrench.

Remove the steering wheel to give more room in the cockpit. Remove the speedometer cable. Disconnect the clutch connection. Remove the exhaust mount. Remove the two bolts that hold the gearbox mount to the chassis. No need to remove the remote, although I see that you did. Remove the inspection plate on top of the bellhousing so that you can use the opening to grip.

I put jack stands under the frame and under the joint of the front A arms so that the car doesn't bounce while the gearbox is out. I use a scissor jack from an old Taurus to support the engine under the sump toward the back where it is stronger. A wide board bolted to the bottom for stability and another board at the top to spread the pressure against the sump loosely attached to the jack so that it can pivot. Only need to lift until the weight is off of the mount.

I don't use a trolley jack or rolling platform under the gearbox after trying it the first time I removed the gearbox. Muscles are best.

Practice the moves that you will make removing the gearbox and handing it off to a helper.

Replace two bolts at 10:00 o'clock and 2:00 o'clock that hold the bellhousing to the engine with M8X1 hardened bolts with the heads cut off and rounded to guide the bellhousing as noted earlier. Bolts are readily available at a good hardware store. Not sure how long mine are - probably 2-3 inches. It's not impossible if you don't have the studs to guide removal. They're "nice to have" not "need to have." They do make installation easier.

Remove the rest of the bolts holding the bellhousing. Don't forget the ground wire. I poke each bolt into its place on a circle on a piece of cardboard in case some are different. Mark the one that attaches the ground wire. Simplifies replacement.

Raise the engine until the gearbox mount is about a quarter inch off of the chassis.

Two people get the job done. One under the car to guide the gearbox and one in the cockpit to remove it. The two guide pins through the bellhousing may bind. Grip the hole in the bellhousing and the remote or tail of the gearbox. Slide it straight back until the input shaft is free of the pressure plate or until you need to clear the mounting plate on the cross member. The front of the bellhousing may catch on the bulkhead foot plate. The guy under the car may be able to help clear it.

It's pretty hard to turn around, step over the chassis, and avoid hitting the dash and rear quarter panel while holding the gearbox. So wait for the guy under the car to get up. Hand the gearbox to him.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Guide studs should have a smooth shank. Smear some grease on them before removing the gearbox.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Thanks Lonnie, that is a detailed guide.

Let you know how it goes.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Folk often mention that some bell housing bolts are longer than others however the normal providers sell a pack of common length bolts.

Are they wrong?

Thanks.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

I made a wood riser block with small casters. Made it to exact floor to gear box height. When every thing was free the gear box rolled right out to wear I could pick it up. Reversed to put back in. Was a lot easier than expected.
Peter Dahlquist

Lonnie.
You can use the studs from the cylinder head. The two that hold the valve cover are perfect for that job
That way ony one person is needed. .
Sandy
Sanders

Re: bolts
Look at the Service Parts List AKD834, Plate H, Illus. No. H58, Bolt - securing clutch housing. You're then led to Page No. H.2, Illus. No. H58. Under Gearbox Details you'll find H58 as Part No. JA5052. No. off per car as 10, i.e., all of the bolts around the bell housing are intended to be the same length.
There are only two reasons for thinking of a longer bolt - 1. because of the ground strap and 2. for when you've gotten too exuberant on a bolt and forgot that the housing is aluminum. (That's what Heli-Coils are made for, or TimSerts, etc.)

Bud
Bud Krueger

Thanks Bud, I will note any differing lengths.

Dave I got 4 x 100mm, M8-1 bolts from Bolt Depot traveling from MA to me right now.

Will lop off their heads, they have a smooth shanks.

Is there any reason to not use 3 bolts?

Thanks.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Peter, there's a law of physics saying something like 2 points define a line, 3 points a plane. You'd have to have a unique configuration of holes for their surfaces to seat on three arbitrary bolt surfaces. The sliding would be easier if you could do that. It might be worth a try. Bud
Bud Krueger

My car is RHD so the brake pipe from master cylinder passes across the frame. I goes along the front of the cross member in the gearbox area.

As soon as I figure out how to protect that I am ready to haul the box out.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Gearbox is out, one man job. Used 4" long headless bolts in the 10/2 o'clock, bit of a wriggle and it came back easily. when I got to the end of the guide bolts, I had a trolley jack to take the weight.

Was able to rest it on the left chassis while to went around the car and lifter it into another trolley jack with a large flat area.

I noticed it has a lip seal installed so I may swap this rear housing to the other box I am going to fit.

The mount web was broken on both boxes, the repair on my old box looks the best, I may go to a rose joint id I can get one short enough.

Are there any issues with removing rear housing, I will get a piece of angle iron the bolts to the flange to hold it while I undo the nut.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Peter



P G Gilvarry

Got the flange off, really easy to do, took off the selectors and then the rear housing.

The guard "flat washer" was not in there. I guess it's role is to keep the felt washer out of the bearing so with a lip seal and no felt it is probably surplus to requirements.

Thoughts?

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Getting it all reassembled, was able to source a lip seal based an the dimensions of the old one and verified by measurement.

Added a new 6205 bearing, common type.

Transferred the bell housing today, looked for National 470041 Oil Seal, not available locally, found a National 450593/SKF CR10050 which is 0.2969 thick Vs 0.4375. Found a CR10050 in my bell housing so fitted a new one.

Tomorrow I lock wire/safety wire the selectors and I am ready for the box to go back in and bolt it all back together. Plan is to have it all back together by Friday night, no rain Saturday so I will test drive it with just drivers floor board and seat.

I can select every gear without issue, something I could not do with other gear box, there is no need to rotate first motion shaft to get it to slip into gear.

Hope to have box in tomorrow and get the clutch rod, speedo cable and tailshaft reconnected and gearbox refilled with oil.

Going to go with Redline MT-90 right off the line, can drain it soon after to see if any metal comes out, I have magnetic drain plug.

Fingers crossed, checked clutch alignment today with correct tool. 71 years of age and always used a dowel wrapped with tape in the past.

Onward, onward, I go!

Peter
P G Gilvarry

A $1.00 large round clear plastic bowl from the Dollar Tree works great to catch gear oil from your gearbox. Solids and slurry fall to the center of the bowl. Shine a light from below to see. A magnet underneath may help (hope not)

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Tom Lange sells magnetic drain plugs, the oil in my gearbox is retained by one.

I have got the box back in and filled. Everything is reconnected ready for drivers floor board and seat the be fitted for a road tes.

Hope to get that part done today but first job is to corral all the tools that have been used to get this far.

Peter
P G Gilvarry

Drove the car with the "other" gearbox installed, shifts just fine. Short drive as it is only 50deg today, tomorrow I am going to rug up and talk a longer drive.

I took my time with the swap, all went smoothly, learned a lot, there are a couple of things I would do differently next time, but it is working!

Peter
P G Gilvarry

This thread was discussed between 28/01/2015 and 25/10/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.