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MG TD TF 1500 - Trans Cover Insulation?

In looking at Horst Schach's Restoration Manual, he shows padding on the transmission cover. I have not seen this before. Was it standard on the TD?

It is not the carpet padding, he shows this later in his book covering the entire trans cover. I am assuming this was heat/sound reducing material similar to what is used in the MGB.

I am not finding this in any of the supplier's web pages.





Bruce Cunha

Rob Grantham brought up the subject in January 2018. BBS members posted photos of the original material.

Thread: Gearbox cover coarse, fibrous material.
Posted 03 January 2018 at 23:45:16 UK time
Rob Grantham, Western Australia, Australia
https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=201801032345166353

30-pound roofing felt is a possible substitute, but the tar-paper and mastic aroma may not be pleasant when the engine and gearbox get warm.

Chris Couper has a pattern for cutting insulation for the gearbox cover on his website. Not the original insulating material, but may help if you plan to replicate the covering.
https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/Pictures/Restoration/td_trans_cover_insulation.jpg

The Original MG TD midget website has excellent instructions for installing carpet. They don't include special insulation for the gearbox cover. Carpet padding is glued to the underside of the carpet. Works well for me.
https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_carpet.htm

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Bruce,

The gearbox cover material was applied to all TFs and I suspect all TDs.

The original material may have had elements of Asbestos within it ! If you use a grey felting instead available from Upholstery suppliers it looks almost
identical and will function adequately.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

mine had the insulation, replaced it with modern stuff
TRM Maine

I find it interesting that none of the suppliers in the US or the UK gave this in their inventory.

Is it speculative that the TD had it or do we have documentation?

Bruce Cunha

The second picture is 100% original. This was a black, paper/oil like material about 1/8" thick. I substituted for modern foil backed stuff last time I swapped the carpets.

Look at the second step of these instructions:

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_carpet.htm
Christopher Couper

Thanks Chris. I will do some searching to find a product similar to original.
Bruce Cunha

TDs had the material. As mentioned it was likely an asbestos type material. Re move it as it rarely is intact on the covers I’ve dealt with. The jute carpet material in the carpet kits is sufficient for sound deadening. Moss has an aluminized product with a sticky backing that works as a sound deadened and heat shield
W A Chasser

Dynamat!
efh Haskell

1/4" Jute padding available at Fabric stores and upholstery supply. I had what was in the picture on the tunnel of my '50 TD. Replaced it with the jute padding.
... CR
CR Tyrell

Any clues as to how thick the original was?

I would rather use something closer to the original, but that may be difficult without seeing some of it.
Bruce Cunha

It was about 1/8” thick as I recall. With the density of a heavy weight roofing “tar paper” material.
W A Chasser

From the factory parts book. Interesting that it also shows same over "front floor". My recollection is also a likely asbestos tar or oil soaked type material. Roofing felt would be the closest modern material, but even using the pattern above, I don't know how you could mold it. Yes, the modern carpet kits have thick padding, and/or use Dynamat. George


George Butz III

I did some looking and there are a number of products out there. Some are not all that expensive. I want to stay away from the shiny aluminum look. What do you all think of this?

It is a dense polyethylene foam. 3mm comes out to 1/8 inch.

Large enough sheet to cut out Chris's pattern.

I think the 3M product may be closer to original. It is a tar based pad.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-08840-Sound-Deadening-1-pad/dp/B005RNGRMU/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=3M+Auto+Sound+Deadening+Pads+08840&qid=1631764529&sr=8-3

They come 10 per pack and all I need in one. If I go with this, I may trace out the pattern on them and put them up for others.

Another is a foam based. A lot less in cost.

https://www.amazon.com/Car-Sound-Deadening-Mat-Automotive/dp/B09BZT2ZRK/ref=sr_1_158?crid=3HJ8XW7WYHOP1&dchild=1&keywords=automotive+sound+and+heat+insulation&qid=1631763805&sr=8-158
Bruce Cunha

George, thats the carpet underlay which had a thin black coating on one side.
M Magilton

Bruce, The "felt, jute, sound deadener, insulation" was and is, 1/4" in thickness.
.. CR
CR Tyrell

Chris Cooper was gracious enough to send me a JPG of his transmission tunnel insulation pad diagram. https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_carpet.htm

Here is how I make a diagram into a pattern.

Load the JPG on your computer and open it in a photo program that will allow you to adjust the size of the picture. I use a Microsoft based computer and use Photos.

Hook your computer to your flatscreen TV (HDMI cord or if you have a Smart TV, you may be able to use bluetooth or one of the Cast programs.

Adjust the size of the picture on the computer until the picture on the TV is the actual size of the item you are making. Chris's photo is perfectly scaled, so it expands perfectly>

Tape printer paper on the TV screen. Tape all the sheets together.

Trace the image on the screen onto the paper. I use a smooth ballpoint pen. Don't use a felt pen or anything that will bleed through the paper.

Take the paper off the TV as one sheet and cut out the tracing.

You can use this for items that are bigger than the TV, but you have to cut the diagram into pieces so you can make enough diagrams on the screen to make the size of the item you need. This will work for the TD floorboard diagram.






Bruce Cunha

Here is the finished template


Bruce Cunha

I have attached a PDF of the full size template. Print it "Actual size", "100%", "No scaling" onto 8-1/2 X 11 paper. Then tape the pages together.

Measure some of the distances on the printed paper to make sure that they are printed at the correct scale.

(You may not be able to see all seven pages of the PDF on a smart phone.)

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

OOPS

My pattern doesn't include the center of the cover. Need to work on it some more.

But not now ... I'm going to the garage to hand a door on my TF.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Lonny. Nice work on setting that one up to print on individual pages. That is probably a quicker way than what I did.

I used to build props for people that go to SciFi and Anime conventions and use the computer/TV to size up things so I can make a pattern.
Bruce Cunha

My "modern" TF had thick felt underlay which gave a nice, silent and refined ride. However the car leaked and the underlay became soaked. It was a big job to remove the carpets and hang out the underlay to drain and dry. I have seen a bucket full of water drain out.

I have an Austin Healey Sprite which I have rebuilt with a new body. Rather than use the original absorbent felt I insulated the gear box tunnel and floor with Dynamat pads. These are expensive but are totally water proof. They have made a huge difference to the refinement of the Sprite. Most noticeable is the reduction in wine from the straight cut first gear.

Jan T
J Targosz

I found a 1/4 inch synthetic jute that has a diamond pattern rubber material on it.

While not the same fiber jute the original appears to have, this should work well. It is heat and sound rated.

Here is the material after I cut out the pattern. I will install it tomorrow.
Bruce Cunha

I found a 1/4 inch synthetic felt material that has a diamond rubber backing. It is sound and heat rated and should work. It is also water resistant.

I did not find a piece of fiber jute, like was original.

I cut the pattern out today and will install it on the transmission cover tomorrow


Bruce Cunha

I agree with Bill,

I am pretty sure mine is original, and it sure looks like it has asbestos in it. So be careful with handling. I am not in my garage now, but I believe mine is thinner than 1/8". I can get photos if anyone is interested. I certainly will not be putting it back on.

Lonnie,
I used the print-scale method on the floor design pattern. I scaled the grid to 2", randomly checked some measurements, printed on multiple sheets, taped together and used as a full scale template. Worked like a charm.

Jim TD17744
JV Smith TD17744

I corrected the error on the full-size pattern for insulation on a TD/TF gearbox cover that I posted a couple of days ago in this thread.

I created a new thread for the pattern:
Thread: Full-size pattern for insulation on gearbox cover

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I found that after cutting out the material the top hole on the side did not quite line up with the bump-out on the tunnel. I enlarged the hole to get it to fit. I also had to elongate the top hole.

Here is the finished piece.

I also sprayed a scrap piece with rubberized undercoating. I think a few coats would get it looking similar to the original, although the insulating material is different.

MG used that yellow fibrous material on a number of cars. My 67 BGT had it without any coating as tunnel insulation. There was also a pad of it with a gray material coating that acted as insulation under the spare tire cover/rear hatch shelf.






Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 13/09/2021 and 27/09/2021

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.