MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - valve cover race winner- BUSTED!

rules state "The cars shall have no power source. All motive force is provided by gravity."

"The cars are to be launched with their front wheels on the starting line."

After browsing the photos of GOF Central, I came upon this picture catching the winner taking an illegal advantage. Note the front wings have no other purpose other than perching on the starting gate to gain a pull at the start from the starter's muscles. That isn't gravity.

I was a judge at the finish line, and it may be a bit tardy, but "YOU'RE DISQUALIFIED!"

Now, there's really no telling who would've really won the race at GOF Central.

Watch out for this underhanded tactic at future valve cover races.


Jim Northrup

For shame, for shame....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

but progress is always made by 'testing' the rules, and sometimes they get a little broken.

IanB
Ian Bowers

IMBW, but I think that was the same one that got disqualified at the Jimminy Peak G.O.F. a few years ago,,,
STEVE WINCZE

Hmmm , Interesting interpatation of the rules.
“All motive force is provided by gravity… with their front wheels on the starting line."

The operative part of that being “ON” ? Looks like the wheels are definitely “on” the starting line!
In the MG community, I would like to think this was more ingenuity than deception.

A definite edge …but the “boost” is still supplied by gravity when the gate goes down.
If the rules said “behind the starting line” that would be a different story.
(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and have never played one on TV!)

Kind of reminds me of the MC helmet laws when first passed in Ohio years ago.
The law stated you had to “wear an approved helmet” …it did not say “where” you had to wear it.
Until they changed it there were a number of people riding around with a helmet strapped to their leg!

There are always some people that just don't get it "quite right"! LOL


David Sheward

It's amazing what people will do to win a trophy, isn't it? Especially if winning by cheating renders the trophy virtually worthless of any meaning.
Gene Gillam

Dave,
The gate is not dropped by gravity, it is pushed down by the starter. This muscle power helps launch the cheater down the ramp. That's the real issue.

I looked at the track and don't see a "starting line." I would say the rules should be clarified and refer to the gate, as in "front wheels must be up against the gate, and nothing else touching the gate."


I didn't have a racer, so I'm not whining on my own behalf. I feel bad for all the participants who worked so hard fabricating a racer because now we'll never know who had the fastest toy. It'll be another whole year for most before getting another shot at a trophy.
Jim Northrup

Jim,
I see your point! Guess I didn't realize it is actually "pushed down".
That kind of puts it in a different light for me.
Much the same as getting a "push" from an outside power source. Not fair!

Totaly aggree with Gene's statement.
Years ago my daughter and I spoted a "longest distance travelled" trophy winner loading his car in a trailer behind a Wallmart about 2 miles away from the event. I had talked to him at the show and was told all about some of the "side of the road" repairs required to get there. Never thought to ask how long it took to replace the water pump in the Suburban!
LOL
David Sheward

I think as the gate rotates down, it actually "pulls" the racer foward,,,,
STEVE WINCZE

"It's amazing what people will do to win a trophy, isn't it? Especially if winning by cheating renders the trophy virtually worthless of any meaning."

Welcome to vintage racing.
David Littlefield

Whats your take on the weight dumper?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7LuTfyQ8g&feature=mh_lolz&list=WLC0E58FA1845E31C9
LaVerne

I remember reading about a soapbox derby winner who was disqualified when the judges found an electromagnet in the nose of his car, which touched the metal starting gate. When the starting gate fell forward the magnet pulled the car forward just enough to give it the edge.

Tom Lange
t lange

Deja vu!
While browsing the GOF Central photos, that Soap Box Derby episode came to mind when I saw picture #384. That "hole shot" looked too good to be just gravity acceleration. (see image of pic 384) Just a little nudge gives an extra acceleration all the way down the track.

from Wikipedia "Soap Box Derby" (you can see pictures of the racer there)
"In 1973, 14 year old Jimmy Gronen of Boulder, CO was stripped of his title two days after winning the national race. Suspicions were running high even before the finals, and Gronen was actually booed by many spectators.

The unusual dimensions of Gronen's margins of victory and heat times tipped off derby officials to illegal circumstances surrounding Gronen's racer. Subsequent X-ray examination of his car revealed an electromagnet in the nose. When activated at the starting line, the electromagnet would pull the car forward by attracting it to the steel paddle used to start the race. Gronen would activate the electromagnet by leaning his helmet against the backrest of his seat, which activated its power source. This became very evident as Gronen's heat times progressively slowed down as the race wore on, because the electromagnet lost strength each time it was activated. Usually, heat times get faster each time a racer completes a heat. Videotape of the race also showed a suspiciously sudden lead for Gronen just a few feet after each heat began. The margin of victory for a race heat will normally be no more than 1 to 3 feet. Gronen's early heat victories were in the 20 to 30 feet range. (Aluminum insulator plates were added to the starting ramps in 1974 to render an electromagnetic system useless.) [3]

Midway through the 1973 race, Derby officials also replaced Gronen's wheels after chemicals were found to be applied to the wheels' rubber. The chemicals caused the tire rubber to swell, which reduced the rolling resistance of the tire.

In the final heat, Gronen finished narrowly ahead of Bret Yarborough. Within two days, Yarborough was declared the 1973 champion.

Gronen's uncle and legal guardian at the time, wealthy engineer Robert Lange, was indicted for contributing to the delinquency of a minor and paid a $2,000 settlement.[4] Lange's son, Bob Lange Jr. (and Jimmy Gronen's cousin) had won the previous 1972 Derby using a car considered to be indistinguishable from the vehicle used by Gronen. Boulder, Colorado was also banned from any future participation in the All-American Soap Box Derby.


Jim Northrup

The SA2333 racer that he is up against happens to be mine, the one with the 12 volt positive ground LED fused lighting system with headlights, tail lights, exhaust effects and green ground effects...in other words, over done for fun..... all valve cover racers are a little off anyway, right?

The sad part about it all, he could have beat me without an advantage. My racer weighed 12 lbs, his was 29.7 lbs, all legal, but heavier goes faster. In 5 races after the event that we did just for fun, he still beat me anyway, not by the large 20" margin in the competition, but by 2-3 inches only, so he did not have to do what the pics clearly showed that he did, either accidental or otherwise, and now his other races are 'tainted' as well. He has a fast racer, really doesn't need an 'edge'. On the other hand, it could have been just a 'mistake' of placement on the starting gate, but this is the racer with independent adjustable suspension, laser guided tracking etc, so hard to tell. One other detail is that it is the 'best two out of three' and winner moves on. He barely won the first race. The second was the one in 'question'?

Just my two cents. This was my first attempt and race experience. Wait til next year!


Lee Jacobsen

Maybe there should be an "Unlimited Class" at the next GOF? LOL
Retro Rocket Rocker Racers Really R a Riot!
(say that 10 tymes real fast)
And remember: racecar spelled backwards is racecar.
David Sheward

Last year at Ohio there was another SA valve cover racer that easily weighed over 100lbs, and I believe he is still undefeated.

From what I have learned from other valve cover racers, the generally accepted weight limit among 'gentlemen' is 30 pounds.

I would love to see that understanding made 'official'.

Who ever runs the event sets the rules however.....at least for now. When we organized the valve cover race for the Michigan GOF, we just took the rules posted on the NEMGTR website, and that was it.

However, as mentioned, the event coordinators have the final say on rules, and the participants can choose to play....or not.....
Lee Jacobsen

Let's hope there's a weight limit.
Yesterday, I weighed out over 100 lbs of lead for next year.
Jim Northrup

There is a weight limit in Australian RC racing. Cant remember what it is though.

Matthew.


Matthew Magilton

Looking at that first photo, I'm thinking the length of the vehicle wouldn't have fit if it wasn't up on the 'gate'..... Saw this happen at one of ours and they moved the gate (with some other makeshift thing)... I'm thinking if that dimension from the gate back is a 'legal' one and the racer doesn't fit....to bad!!!!

I found also at the same function, that the fun sort of all left when the 'over engineered' competitors stepped up.... what started as something for the 'kids' to do at a meet, turned really ugly when the dads got involved..... just sayin!
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

The gentleman in the blue shirt is obviousy unimpressed by any racer legal or not!

Jim
James Neel

Most of the club sites I have looked at are restricted to 10 lbs.
LaVerne

A search on the internet shows lots of conflicting rules all over the map. Sure shows the importance of issuing criteria well in advance of a function.

Hope the Chicago folks post the rules for GOF Central 2012 soon. Hate to break out the cutting torch at the last minute!
Jim Northrup

Seems like this mundane GOF ritual has gotten out of hand. Goes with the saying, "little things please little minds, and bigger fools look on".
My first encounter with this event was some 10 years ago at the Indiana GOF and I thought it to be pretty childlike. As I remember, we saw a couple of "races" and then went off to have beer and commented, "what's with that", a big deal I guess"

Colin Stafford TF6688

Colin...

Mudane!!! You must be kidding!!

What's the big deal with drinking a beer?

To some folks, it's a big deal.

To others, not the beverage of choice.

Bottom line...pick and choose your 'fun'.

For some of us, the choice to build Valve Covers as racers is fun, so , when, and if, that urge ever hits you, you will have that option open.

We all are for 'Freedom of Choice' right?

My choice would be to do both, ie race, 'with beer in hand' which is exactly what many did at the Clarion ballroom where it took place as it was an 'open bar'.

Let's see if St. Charles can match that in 2012.....

Lee Jacobsen

This thread was discussed between 18/08/2011 and 21/08/2011

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.