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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Which Fuel Pump?

I did some Googling and learned that there are literally dozens of after-market fuel pumps out there.

This begs these questions:-
1)which ones can legitamatly replace the SU pump.?
2)What is the pressure range?
3)How much delivery is required?
4)and can some of the after-market pumps run on + ground?

Dave DuBois' excellent web-site (http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/sufuelpumparticles.html) deals with several items, but doesn't deal with after-market replacements. It seems that reliability is a main issue, so I would like to know what alternatives are available to the Burlen/SU pump, and into what price range do they fall.

It appears that there are low-pressure pumps available from $30 to a couple of hundred, but which are the ones that our illustrous contributors have installed/tried, and what have been the results?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué
Gordon A. Clark

Gordon - Any of the after market pumps will work fine as long as you get a low pressure (2.5 - 4psi). The best place to install them is in the back of the car near the fuel tank as is done in the late TFs onward.

Why do you want to go to an after market pump? If it is reliability, you are after, a new SU pump will be every bit as reliable as any of the after market units and will last just as long. If you drive your car regularly, get a points style pump. If the car is not driven regularly or if it is put in hibernation each winter, then an all electronic pump (or my solid state conversion is in order. Cheers - Dave

PS. I don't address after market pumps in my web site because I don't work on them.
David DuBois

The one I bought as a back up mounts right to the second fuel pump bracket on my MKII, right in the stock location. It has a black plastic body and blends right in. It's one of those little electronic jobs. Got it at Napa. Can work with either + or - ground. And is very quiet. It was a Facet pump but don't have the model right now. I really looks like it was just made to sit there. And it will pull gas from the bottom of the gas tank. I only have about 1 gal in the bottom of the tank and it self primed and pumped to the carb in short order. I made a fitting that goes from 1/8 npt to the british flared fitting of the stock MG fuel line. Works fantastic as a back up to my SU.

It will be a couple weeks before I can get out and look at the pump for the number but I will if you wish.
l rutt

Larry - Keep a close eye on that pump, they have a nasty habit of forming cracks as it ages, although if it is the one that was common a few years ago, that uses barb connections, it is less likely to do that. Other than the cracking, those are a very good pump. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

I have had an electronic SU and I highly recommend it. Works great, and looks and sounds original. It should be more reliable, not having as many mechanical parts (points).

Larry
Larry Ayres

It's a backup to my SU electronic pump (which failed within an hour of use) I just move the electrical connection from one pump to the other and move the output hose over. Takes less than a minute. I figured I'd just use them both from time to time to keep things working. At less than $40 they are cheap. I will keep an eye on it. the base plate it mounts to though is fairly flexible since it's the stock plate an SU mounts to. Bolt pattern was exactly the same. I was surprised it would pull fuel from the bottom of the tank but no problems. And it's no noisier than the SU. Just runs all the time intead of when needed. But thanks for the heads up on cracking.
l rutt

Larry - If you can't get the all electronic pump replaced or want to try adjusting it (probably all that is needed, e-mail me and I'll send you an adjustment procedure. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

got the electronic SU replaced under warranty so all is good. thanks
l rutt

I'm no further ahead.

I had hoped to get some specific names of makes. Seems like the SU electronic rises to the surface each time.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.


Gordon A. Clark

Gordon a good choice sold at Autozone is the Airtex fuel pump, part no. E-8016S. Low pressure. This pump is also under the Masters, Federal-Mogul, and other names. It is a cylindrical pump, comes with a mounting bracket. Has two wires, so positive or negative ground cars will have no problem. Under $50.00. QUIET!

If you have no Autozone the Napa pump is #610-1051 , which is a Facet pump. This may be negative ground only.

The round body Napa pump is Napa # BK-610-1075 , Which is the Facet FEP-605V.

It will depend upon your distributor what he carries in stock, but they can get what you want in a few days.

Dallas
D C Congleton

The Facet 610-1051 is the one I used. I just didn't recall the number but that is it. Like $40, has 2 wires, works wiht positive ground, plastic black body so blends in well, and is no noisier than a stock SU pump. So your call.
l rutt

"If you have no Autozone the Napa pump is #610-1051 , which is a Facet pump. This may be negative ground only."

Contrary to what it says on the packaging, all of these pump can be used in either a negative or positive ground vehicle. One just has to hook them up red wire to positive and black wire to negative. There is no connection of either wire to the metal parts of the pump. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Many thanks to Irutt, Dave and Dalas.

That's exactly the information I've been seeking. I live only 5 minutes from the US border and we have an Autozone, NAPA and Advance Auto, all with a 20-minute drive.

I've been driving around without a spare fuel pump since Gatlinburg (I lent my spare to someone at the event, and never got it back!), and feel vulnurable.

Many thanks all.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

I don't understand all the bias against the points SU. If the electronics SU goes out, what ya gonna do? The points version can be fixed on the side of the road.
Carl Floyd

To Carl Floyd,
You are absolutely right, the points type can be fixed by the side of the road (usually). However what you must also consider is that the electronic type will last much longer than the point type without any repair (assume a clean fuel tank in both cases). A dirty tank will effect both types equally.

In fact if the diaphram is of a type that the ethanol doesn't bother the electronic type should last as long as the engine between rebuilds.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Cheers,

Bob
bobj50

My dad bought his MGB new in 1963. It still runs on the original SU fuel pump. He did have to change or clean the points (can't remember which) once about 25 years ago. ;)
Carl Floyd

Once in 25 years is pretty darn good... I have to clean mine once every two months or so... dirty points have put me on the side of the road about 4 times in 4 years... a quick clean gets me going again.
gblawson(gordon)

Carl - I'm not sure that there really is a bias against the points style pump. As Bob states, a points style pump can usually be coaxed back into life on the side of the road long enough to get you home if necessary (I had a pump in which the pedestal broke in our TD and I was able to get home by driving until the float bowls ran out of fuel, then by repeatedly pressing the upper points down to make contact with the lower points, would fill the float bowls and proceed another 1/4 mile - fortunately we were only a couple of miles from home), while if an all electronic or solid state pump fails, that's all the further you are going to get. On the down side for the points style pumps, the contacts on the points film over as soon as they are exposed to air. This film is non conductive and will eventually build up sufficiently to stop the points from conducting and stop the pump from running. the normal current through the points and the arcing that occurs when the points open is enough to keep the film burned off of the contacts. In the early days of the cars, people drive them on a daily basis and they didn't have any problems. The problem of the film insulating the points occurs when the car is not driven on a regular basis. Now days, a MG is a toy to most people and only driven a couple of times a year (this is particularly true of owners of T series cars). I know, those of us who are real die hards drive our cars more often than that (My wife and I only have two cars - a 53 TD and a 66 MGB and they are our every day, get the groceries, go everywhere cars that are driven year around), but the vast majority of MG owners don't and therein lies the problem - the points film over, the care dies on the road, the owner has to pound on the pump to get home, etc, etc. The final solution is to throw out the "stupid, unreliable SU fuel pump" and replace it with a little, square, run all the time, make a lot of noise, Facet pump, which is "vastly more reliable than those stupid old fashioned SU pumps that are only good for throwing at the wandering dog"

After 30 plus years of working on the pumps, I have found a couple of things to be true. People who own MGs today, as I stated earlier own them as toys and a whole lot of them never bother to learn much about the cars, much less the component parts and when they have trouble with the car, they either take it to a mechanic (who may or may not know much more about MGs) to be fixed. the mechanic finds a bad fuel pump and goes to NAPA and gets something that will work and sticks it in, tells the owner that the old unreliable pump pump had failed, and sends the on their way. the other owner that you get suffers from a chronic case of tinkeritus and plays with everything on the car, whether it needs fixing or not. When the fuel pump fails, this owner digs into it and tries to fix it. Sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not. Often times they fail after repeated attempts to get the pump working because they don't fully understand how it works and how to adjust it to get it working properly (they go by the description in the shop manual that was written for parts and materials of 50 years ago, which doesn't apply to today's parts and material - such as stretching the diaphragm). Often times, this owner will go to the BBS or other forum for advice, which is not always helpful. The answers that I have seen on the forums run from knowledgeable and helpful to the disgruntled previous owner whose advice is to throw anything with the initials SU in front of it and buy a modern replacement. This advice is given with such assuredness and pontification that it sound like the only thing to correct the problem.

Enter the all electronic or solid state pumps. For the owner who drives their car on a regular basis, this is not really needed, but for the person who only drives their car on a once or twice a year basis, it is a real advantage. They can have a pump that looks and sound like a genuine SU fuel pump (it is in fact a real SU fuel pump) and not have to worry about the points filming over no matter how long the car sits without being driven. Theoretically, as Bob states, these pumps will actually outlast the points style pumps (barring any failures, clogged inlet lines, or other maltreatment at the hands of the owner), for the simple reason that there are no points to finally wear out. Even though I modify all the pumps that I work on to solid state, I am quick to point out to the client, that if they drive their car on a regular basis, a points style pump will serve the just as well as the solid state pump will. I also am a big advocate of having a permanently installed back up pump that can be switched in if the primary pump fails so one doesn't have to repair or swap out a pump at the side of the road (see the article, Backup Fuel Pump in the SU Fuel Pump section of my web site at: http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/ ). For this application, it is imperative that one uses a solid state or all electronic pump (I suggest either a Facet or Carter for this as thy are cheap and reliable) for the reasons stated above.

Sorry this is so long, but this subject is somewhat of a hot button for me. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Carl,

I understand your point. And in fact, my own SU is performing quite well. I am 76 yrs old and am full of arthiritis. I drive a lot of miles every year in my 54 TF and virtually all of it alone. However the thought of having to lie on my back at the side of the New York Thruway, on a hot Friday afternoon, groping over a hot back axle, to file the points, doesn't particularly excite me. Bottom line is that I simply don't bend like that any more.

So installing a second fuel pump is probably a good avoidance strategy. Part of my new strategy also includes my 44-yr-old daughter in her GAN3 midget driving along behind me, and we will both be at the British Invasion on Sept. 19/20.

I bear no prejudice against the SU pump, be it points of solid state. I'm just looking to avoid what would be a major problem for me.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

And Dave ... you're spot on!!

Wait 'till the guy with tinkeritis sees those 12 little disks come spilling out from under the diaphram. And I'd love to be there when he tries to put them back!!

My car has over 300,000 miles on it. I'm the original owner and I've been all over the US and Canada with it, and like you, in summer, its my daily driver, and mostly with the windscreen down. In winter its my (rare) Dodge Caravan with a 5-speed manual.

The problem is not the SU, but my aging body!

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Gordon - "The problem is not the SU, but my aging body!"

I think that for most of us, whether we will admit it or not, that is the biggest problem we face. In keeping with changing out a fuel pump at the side of the road, see the article, Backup Fuel Pump (the story) in the SU Fuel Pump Articles on my web site at: http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/ Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

related question; can a mga 1500 fuel pump work on a 51 MGTD?
gei irwin 1

Gordon C. Over last winter, I installed one of those little Napa pumps over the rear axle of my TD. The SU pump on the car was getting weak and I wanted to be sure I got through this summer without a problem. Talk about timing. I checked the old pump last week and guess what, it was clicking but not pumping one drop. Well I made it through the summer with the help of the little pump and I will be sending Dave DuBois some work this winter. I had it hooked up to the same circuit as the SU but I think I'll change that over the winter. I think it is a good idea to have it there if the other pump ever stops on you while on the road. I'm certainly glad mine was in operation.
George Raham
TD 4224
G. L. Raham

Gei - Yes, the pump from a MGA will work on the TD. It is a high pressure pump (3.8psi), but the carburetors will handle it just fine. How do I know? I put one on our TD for about a year just to see of the higher would cause any problems. As it turns out, I didn't even have to readjust the float for it to work.

George and Gordon - see the article, Backup Fuel Pump in the SU Fuel Pump Articles on my web site for permanently installing a back up pump. The article is written to a MGB, but it will work just as well in a T series car. With that installed, one doesn't even need to pull to the side of the road to change pumps, just flip a switch and continue on a s though nothing ever happened. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Here is a question... what is an 'old' SU pump? I got a new one when I got the car on the road 4 years ago... other then the above mentioned 'side of the road' cleaning of the points (just the upper/outer ones) and once tightening the screws that go around the diameter (had a tiny bit of weeping), it is as it came out of the box! Have put approx 20,000 miles on it in the 4 and some years.
gblawson(gordon)

Gordon L. To explain what I mean by "an old pump" in my above thread. It is only the third pump in 57 years that has been on my car. I would call that old. My pumps over the years have had minimum service and given incredable performance under sever demand at times. I have great admiration for a part that will give that kind of service over those many years.
George Raham
TD 4224
G. L. Raham

OK, I'll check in on this subject. In my experience (particularly to Dave D.), the filming over you describe I believe to be caused by a preservative (maybe oil) that is on the points when new. This seems more common with the new points from Burlen. If this is not removed throroughly, the current passing through the points will cause this to oxidize. When I rebuild pumps (which isn't quite as often as Dave), I always take special care to clean the points - usually with 400 grit paper. If I remember to do this before the pump is shipped, I rarely have a problem. Forget to do it and the pump will often quit working after 500 - 1000 miles, but a cleaning of the oxide will always restore the pumps to health.

I agree with those who eschew electronic pumps of any kind. I can always get a points style pump going on the road, usually by simply cleaning the points. There are other components which will age, but on a car which is regularly driven, what other component of your car to you service less than an orginal SU pump? Mine has been on my TD for at least 10 years without failure, but I make pump points cleaning a regular part of the annual service routine.

Cheers,
Lew Palmer
Lew Palmer

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2008 and 05/09/2008

MG TD TF 1500 index

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