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MG TD TF 1500 - Winter storage and gasoline

I just received in the mail the Winter 2010 issue of Moss "British Motoring." One of the feature articles, "The Ethanol Issue," debated the advantages of draining the gasoline tank for the winter versus topping it off. The article did not reach an unambiguous conclusion. I've generally topped off my tank for the winter in my sub-freezing clime, minimizing the headspace in which water may condense.

The article did make the clear point that for vented tanks, such as on our T series cars, gasoline deteriorates far more quickly than in non-vented tanks. I never thought of doing this and wonder what others think. Does it make sense to put food plastic wrap and a rubber band around the fill port, or rubber stopper, or something else to reduce moisture infiltration. (Of course, you have to remember to take this off before starting the car.)

Larry
Larry Shoer

Larry,

For the 35 years I have owned my TD I have topped off the tank and always ensured that I have added the recommended amount of Stabil for long-term storage. There is also an additive usually found at marine stores to inhibit the separation of water in gas with added ethanol which I now add in the winter when I do not use the car for extended periods of time. If the cork gasket for the filler cap is in good condition I do not see the need to use plastic wrap. I bought the gas tank dip stick made by Bob Wrenn which has the added benefit of further sealing the filler opening.

Cheers,
Jim
James Neel

Jim,

A couple of years ago I reconditioned the interior of the gas tank with a phenol novolac epoxy gas tank sealer from Caswell Plating. If all goes well, my tank is protected.

The British Motoring article described other problems that included fuel water separation, with water collecting on the bottom of the tank, and gasoline degradation. Both problems could lead to carburetor or spark plug fouling or other engine-related issues.

I also use Stabil, which may hold these problems at bay. Since my TD does not get a lot of miles, I've been slowly migrating to using Stabil year-round.

If additional protection (keeping moist air out) could be provided by something as simple as putting plastic wrap around the fill pipe during the winter, I wanted to bring this question up.

Thanks.

Larry
Larry Shoer

Did they mention what happens when the Stabil reacts with the rubber grommet that connects the float chamber to the body of the H1 carbs in your Bugeye??? Clogged carbs BECAUSE of the Stabil.
David "no thanks" Lieb
David Lieb

Larry,

My TD is stored over the winter for as much as 5 to 6 months. I make sure all the gas is removed from the carb float bowls, and fill the gas tank. I have never used a fuel stabilizer, but do add some gas line antifreeze. In the spring I turn on fuel pump and let it fill the float bowls, pull out the choke and presto, it lights up as if it had been running yesterday. It is important that all systems are in good order when they go to sleep in the fall. As an afterthought, I do make sure I have oil pressure before ignition.

George Raham
G. L. Raham

I use Stabil in all 4 of my MGs that are one the road ( some more frequently than others) and in my sailboat, and have for years. I've never seen any problems with rubber componets that could be related to Stabil....reformulated petrol, yes! Can you cite some evidence that Stabil is the cause? Those grommets on my Arnolts perished frequently until I got the good ones from Joe Curto.
Terry in Oakland who keeps the sailboat gas tank filled to the brim but doesn't worry so much about the cars which live on the edge of SF Bay, the boat live in the Bay!!
Terry Sanders

Since 1986, I have been storing our TD in an unheated garage for the New England Winter with a full tank of fuel, and not draining the carbies.. no fuel antifreeze, no Stabile, no extra additives,,,. The car gets put away in late Nov, and get started again in early May,,, so far, never had a problem starting it in the Spring,,,,no leaks, no gumming up..

JM2C's
SPW
Steve Wincze

Recent discussion with local parts/machine shop owner- he had just spoken to a guy that does high dollar carb restorations (mucsle cars) about the ethanol mess (which has totally made his business go crazy!). He said the worst thing to do now is to store a car with the tank full of ethanol-containing fuel. You get the phase separation , and also the ethanol is hygroscopic (attracts moisture) in a non-closed system. He now says a much less evil is to drain the tank, leave nearly emply, or if you want to fill with av gas(no ethanol at all) or racing fuel. We can get av gas locally at a couple stations, as it is used in airboats. He likes the "Sea Foam" additive the best out of all of them. Lastly, the Moss article states to use the highest octane possible. The carb guy says the reverse- the lower octane likely has the lowest concentration of ethanol. Lastly, a wave of ethanol-induced problems hit anything with a small engine- lawn equipment, boats, and classic cars here late summer. Some here feel that due to the huge glut of ethanol on the market, we may have been buying fuel with a much higher concentration of ethanol than the supposed max of 10%. Remember- the same people socializing our country are determined to change the regular amount of ethanol to 15%. Watch out for this. George
George Butz

PS- of course the racing gas and av gas isn't legal to run in a street car due to no tax paid, etc., so I guess you would have to drain and run in your mower, or take your car off-road to use it up! George
George Butz

Stabil makes 2 kinds, red and green. The green is formulated for ethenol fuels and marine environments. The red is not. If at all possible, use the green. I've used the last of my red and have switched over all my vehicle to the green. I wish there was an easy way to drain the float bowls without having to pull the tops off.
l rutt

On the plus side of winter storage, cold winter temps (where I am) air has very little moisture in it, and correspondingly little is attracted to the fuel, especially at a relatively constant temperature. Secondly, fuel, even E10 is much more stable at cold temperatures than warm, so cold storage of a vehicle is better. When I stored my TD in a warm warehouse, I would add stabil OR seafoam to my full tank. Non heated in the cold, I simply fill the tank. I do use E10 because it is about all we can get. I never have a problem going from cold to warm, and I drive my car more than enough during the season to keep the fuel fresh.

I store my snowblowers and mowers with no oil or fuel to both protect the fuel system from varnish (snowblower) and to allow tipping the equipment up on its side for storage.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Intersting comment about temp and humidity Dave. Here we have daily highs in the 90s all summer, with really wicked high humidity. Maybe that contributed to the troubles in the area. George
George Butz

For a discussion of winter E10 fuel/water separation try this web site. http://www.boatus.com/Seaworthy/ethanolwinter.asp

Although pertaining to boats I think the same criteria would apply to our automobiles in this case.

I also periodically turn the engine over with the key off until I see the oil pressure come up to ensure that everything stays well lubricated.

Jim
James Neel

Also check this paper by Star brite regarding the separation issue.

http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/STAR%20BRITE%20ethanol%20p3072D2.pdf

Jim
James Neel

I rutt,

In my above thread, I state that I remove all the gas from the float bowls. It is an easy procedure and does not involve removing the float bowl covers.

1] warm up the motor.
2] disconnect the power to the fuel pump.
3] start the motor and maintain the rpm at around 1500
until the motor starts to sputter [this may take 1
or 2 minutes] and keep it going with more throttle
until it stops.

At this point, all the gas is gone from the carbs, so no residue will gum up the carbs in the spring time.

I have been doing this since the late 50's and have not had any problems with the start up. I have no idea how ethenol formulated fuels may affect this procedure, but can not see how it would be a problem.

George Raham
G. L. Raham

When my TD enters its Winter hibernation period, I drain all the fuel from the tank then run the engine just outside the door until all the gas in the carbs is used up. It is stored in the basement so there is no condensation problem in the tank and gives me a comfortable place to work on it whenever I feel like it. In the Spring, I push it outside, put a few gallons of fuel in it, run the fuel pump for a few seconds and she fires up right away.
Jim Merz

I read the same article and called my friend who owns Rockett Brand Racing Fuel http://www.rockettbrand.com/(the old Union 76 racing gas which went away when they gave up the NASCAR contract) Below are has comments. The 100 octane he refers to is street legal unleaded, the 118 is leaded.

There can be an issue with some fuel with ethanol, but we do not have a problem with ours. We do use ethanol in part of the blend, so as to meet the Federal requirements for reformulated fuel. We have not experienced any phase separation. The most important thing with any fuel is to keep it clean and dry. When you use a fuel with ethanol you need to be very aware and choose a reputable supplier. When you buy 87-93 at a service station, the bulk of it is splashed blended. If quality control is good, there is no problem. Sometimes when the fuel is splashed blended the mixture is not exact. It could be as much as 15% ethanol, which is too much. Depending on the street cost of ethanol, some suppliers cheat. Imagine that! The more ethanol in the fuel, the more likely there is to have problems. That is why in an older car such as your, you want to fill the tank to the bottom of the filler neck, and block off the vent line. (If you fill to the top of the fill pipe there is no room for expansion when the weather turns warm.) Be sure the fuel cap is tight.



Many members of the Rolls Royce Club in Chicago store their cars with our 100 in the tank. That is not for octane, but because it has such a long storage stability time. Ours least several years, while street gas is designed to last about 3 weeks before you have oxidation and gum problems.



We use some of the same additives in our 118 that you use, so that will help the street gas. Or, you could fill the tank with 100 and drive it home, then top it off with 118. The car will fly in the spring, and the fuel will clean up any deposits from the street gas.

J. McLeod

This thread was discussed between 05/01/2010 and 06/01/2010

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