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MG TD TF 1500 - XPAG / XPEG / What Do We Have?

Can one of you EmGeniuses help us figure out what engine we have in our '54 TF. The firewall plate says Engine# XPAG/TF/32371. The car did not come with an engine plate, so no help there. There is nothing that we can make out above the square casting elevation where the plate belongs. It does not appear that sleeves have been installed, and the bottom of the cylinders are chamfered. The bore is 2.830" (XPEG size). The 3-ring pistons are 2.815" and have the following stamped into the top: "L55 AEF119 to suit .0005 bore" and there is a circle containing "BHB". There is a number stamped on the bottom of the block at the back left corner: "17859" - picture attached. We have always presumed that it was an XPAG, but the cylinder bore would be for an XPEG. So, do we have an XPAG that has been bored-out to mgtf 1500 specs, or an XPEG?

A beautiful St. Patrick’s Day… wish we were driving.

Thanks,

Safety? Fast?

Scott Ashworth - ‘54 MGTF 1250 (or is it?)


S. R. Ashworth

Scott - the biggest difference is in the casting between the two central cylinders. George Raham (hhraham@shaw.ca ) has pictures of his XPAG and XPEG blocks taken from overhead, and the diffrerence is clear there.

I thought someone had posted pictures fairly recently but can't find the link, so contact George.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
Bar Harbor, Maine
t lange

Hi, there may be a casting number behind where the generator sits. If it is AEF117 then it is a XPEG block, otherwise it is a XPAG block. All XPEG blocks had this cast into the block. The head for a XPEG engine should have the identification of AEF118 on the top front right hand side of the head.
Cheers, Hugh Pite Bitish Columbia, Canada
H.D. Pite

The 54 TF had a XPAG engine car # TF 6501. At car #6651 it was changed back to the XPAG engine. At car #6751 the engine was changed to XPEG. 100 cars later at #6851 it was changed back to XPAG. At car # 6951 the engine was switched back to XPEG for the last time. As you can see, for 1954, it depends on the car number as to which engine was stock in the car. In the intervening years since 1954 the engine could have been changed by the various owners. Cheers- Dave
David DuBois

Yinz guys are the best....

Hugh, it looks like we have an XPEG block. The "AEF117" picture is attached. As far as the block number is concerned, does the number stamped into the bottom of the block mean anything? (#17859) It is great to know what the block is, because we need to get a head gasket and rings. Now I know what to get.

I could not find the "AEF118" on the head. The casting on the head is 18842. That'll be the next picture uploaded. The third picture is the stamped number from the head which is 34024.

So, we have an XPEG block and an XPAG head?

Thanks so very much.

Safety? Fast?

Scott Ashworth - '54 MGTF 1375!


S. R. Ashworth

Here is the casting number of the head.


S. R. Ashworth

Here is the number stamped on the bottom right side of the head.


S. R. Ashworth

Hi Scott, are you sure the number is 188422 and not 168422? If it is 168422 then the head is from a TD. The problem with using the XPAG head on the XPEG block is that the water holes will not line up. The water holes on the XPEG block are about 3mm further out from the head center line.
Hugh Pite British Columbia, Canada
H.D. Pite

Hi Scott,
When the TF was introduced in 1954, I ordered a TF head from the dealer in order to match their performance. The head I received with the bigger valves etc. had the number 168422 cast in the head. If you look closely at your head, you will see evidence of the same number in yours. The 2nd digit is a "6" not an "8". The last two digits should read "22", as in mine. If you look very closely at yours, you will see the 2nd "2" looks to have been almost removed, for what reson I cannot understand but there is traces of it in your picture. I have used this head on both my XPAG block and the XPEG block without any problems.

George
George Raham [TD4224]

Not particularly pertinent, but I thought I'd post this in response to S.R.'s picture. This is the replacement head I acquired for my Mk II. Turns out it's a Wolseley head, pt no 168425. Note that the '5' is stamped, not cast.....


Rob Edwards

Scott,

TF 1250 heads had 168425 on them.The first
five(5) digits were cast in whereas the last number '5' was stamped in.

TF1500 heads, as already indicated, were stamped in only,AEF 118.

Many of the original cylinder heads to particular models have been chopped and changed over the years !

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Rob E,

Wolseley 4/44s had the cast no.168422.
You appear to have a genuine TF1250 head!

Cheers
Rob G.
Rob Grantham

Hmm. I was basing my info on this page:
www.mgccyregister.com/node/19016

Says 168425 is late 4/44. Though if it is TF1250, then that makes it easier to explain how it ended up in the States. Were 4/44s ever brought here?
Rob Edwards

Rob,

Yes,I have been aware of this information
source for a while.

Fact is,TF 1250 heads were not numbered
168422! Again,they were 16842(5) with the
5 being stamped in.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Thanks everyone, again.

Tonight I will strip the paint from the number cast into the head, in order to verify that the last number is a stamped "2".

Anyone have any idea what the "17859" stamped into the bottom of the block means? Is that the XPEG engine number? Is it typically stamped into the that bottom area of the block?

So our TF 1250, has an XPEG block, a Wolseley head, MGA ring and pinion, and an MGB fan blade! A veritable melting pot of MG's.

Safety? Fast?

Scott Ashworth - '54 something
S. R. Ashworth

Scott,

I gather you mean you will be verifying that the last number is a STAMPED "5" not "2" !!
TF 1250 heads had the "5" stamped in.

The 2s(together with the other numbers) on the Wolseley 4/44 were cast in,168422.


Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Rob,
As I mentioned above, my head is stamped 168422 which means it is a Wolseley 4/44 head. Do you know what if any, is the difference between the Wolseley and the TF heads, other than the manner in whch they are numbered?

George
George Raham [TD4224]

A little paint, a little acetone and "168425" it is. (Certainly the "5" was stamped over a ground away "2".)

Hopefully, all this information will help my great great grandson figure out which parts to buy, and not make the same mistakes that I have.

I really appreciate all your help, guys.

Safety? Fast?
Scott Ashworth - '54 TF XPEG/XPAG


S. R. Ashworth

Hi George,

The Wolseley head I suspect has smaller valve head diameters,31mm.for the exhaust valve and 33mm. for the intake valve.The TF 1250 in comparison were 34mm. and 36mm.respectively.
This is why the head no. for the TF 1250 was changed to 168425.

Also,the standard Wolseley head compared to a standard TF1250 at least,is thicker in stock.
Very handy to have ready for planing as many of the original TF 1250 heads have been planed down severely over the years!

The compression ratio on the standard Wolseley head was less of course compared to the standard TF 1250 at 8 to 1.

No doubt the TD boys will verify this following info.but I suspect the later TD XPAG cylinder head was designated cast no.168422, same as the Wolseley 4/44.

However,not the TF!(lol).

The early TDs had a cylinder head casting no.22952?

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Cheers

Rob Grantham

This thread was discussed between 18/03/2012 and 20/03/2012

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.