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Triumph Spitfire - Camber Compensator
Flicking through the Spitfire database and found a reference to the 'Camber Compensator' that appears be have been remanufactured (hurray!)
Has anyone here had experience with these systems- how does it influence handling and ride?
|Rob, get back to the MG F section ;) were all to busy here discussing Triumph's ....|
|Cheeky monkey DrB! ;o)|
Been thinking of changing my spit Mk3's rear suspension to Rotoflex- but may instead consider the compensator if a) it works and b) it doesn't fall off on the first speed bump one drive's over...
Another Dr B! ;o)
Why go for R'flex, when both the Spitfire AND the GT6 settled on a swing spring in the end? The R'flex suspension is good, but very heavy. I know of no Spitfire racer who has gone for R'flex, if that is an opinion.
|Thanks John- the weight issue was really THE thing that was putting me off the idea- but the lack of camber change with suspension movement is (I am told) superior to the later swing spring conversion.|
I guess the racers go for a negative camber spring and a very stiff set up at the rear to compensate for camber problems?
I guess what I am after is that eutopian 'best of both worlds' low unsprung weight and good geometry control. Camber compensators could be one route- but it looks clumsy to my eyes.
Short of engineering a double wishbone rear end (something that someone has done on a Mk4)- are there any other options I could consider for a road car?
Spitfire racers tend to go for the 1500 set-up, swing spring and long halfshafts. Lots use a rear antiroll bar, but I have never seen a camber compensator on a racer - perhaps they have forgotten them! But the compensator may be heavier than an ARB.
Having said that, the setup with the least camber change can be the Rotoflex setup, BUT with different wishbone bracket positions and a spacer under the spring. For this I am grateful to Mr Eikhof,a Swedish engineer, who wrote about the R'flex ideal in the Courier many years ago. I followed up his article and wrote about "Suspension Tuning the LoTec way" in the Courier and few years ago. The following tables are from that article:
Different wishbone brackets.
Bump Neutral Droop
Normal bracket -1 +2 +8
‘Racing’ bracket -2 -0.5 +3.5
Eickoff ‘A’ bracket 0 +1 +3.5
Eickoff ‘B’ bracket +1 +1 +1.5
Differences from standard bracket
‘Racing’ = 25mm(1”)down, 5mm(0.2”) out
Eickoff ‘A’ = 44mm(1.7”) down(Minimises R'flex plunge)
Eickoff ‘B’ = 66mm(2.6”) down(Minimises camber change)
Table 3. Wheel camber from bump to droop.
25mm(1”) spacer under spring and ‘Racing’ bracket:
Bump Neutral Droop
-1 -2 +1
I concluded that this was the best Rotaflex setup.
You can do your own experiments by making a simple card and paper 2-dimensional model of the rear suspension. I can send you a ccopy of the 'LoTec' article if you wish.
|I think I might have that article somewhere John- thanks. Can you recall which courier it was in? I have really got to get around to archiving these brilliant little club mags! Actually, could you send it to me anyway? Thanx!|
Interesting that you mention ARBs in the context of camber compensators, as before I read about CCs I reckoned that an ARB would be capable of performing the same job- preventing the wheel tuck-in. Trouble with that idea is that the rear roll stiffness would be increased and promote understeer...
Okay- so the best (road) option probably is going to be a spring-spring conversion with 1500 drive shafts and tie-bars. I guess the 1500 front ARB would be manditory.
I thought I had replied to your last posting, but it doesn't appear here - did i e-mail you?
Best you get the article (Courier, No.203, May '97, p54-57) if you can, it includes the diagrams. Let me know if a problem, and I will try to scan them in.
Are you in contact with J.Binnington, who has remanufactured the camber compensator? He also published in the Courier, last year, about his 'Bonio', a modified GT6. I can give him your email address if you need.
|Thanks John, I appreciate that :o) I search out the article, and if I can't find it, I'll let you know- Ta!|
Regarding J.Binnington, if you have his e-mail address, then yes could you forward it to me please?
(with a rather nippy 5-speed converted Mk3)
|Rob, on second thoughts, it might be better 'nettiquette' for me to pass on your address to Mr.Binnington - which I have done.|
Hope he can help
|Thanks John- Mr. B seems rather pleased with the performance of the CC. It doesn't necessarily solve all the spittys problems, but at least it makes the car more predictable- something that at the end of the day is what I want.|
Cheers- and thanks for all your help John :o)
|I actually own 2 Camber Compensators dating from the mid sixtys, i might sell if anyone is interested.|
This thread was discussed between 27/04/2001 and 08/06/2001
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