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Triumph TR6 - Big Brakes
|My last post was "sticking front brakes", they turned out to be rusted and I want to try the Toyota conversion,bigger brakes, less $$, I guess I fall on the fun side of the fun/concorse debate. My question is about the hard brake line one has to make to go metric to SAE. Is the flair one needs to put in the line a "double flair"? The info I have calls for a "bubble flair" is it the same? Im looking for a tool to do this. Thanks Jeff|
|It is a double flare at both ends, bubble flare is a later ISO convention. As far as the tooling goes, that seems to be up in the air. I bought a K-D brand tooling set for making the double flares and was not happy with what I was making. I finally gave up and took my brother in law up on an offer he had extended. He and his father have a company that make hydraulic lines for the aircraft industry. I took all the bits up to him and he made up a beautifal set of hard lines for me.|
Later on talking with another poster to this board local to me, I mentioned the problems that I had making an acceptable double flare. He inidcated that he had similar problems and bought three sets of tooling from different suppliers before finding one that he thought worked well at making double flares. One of the brands that he wasn't happy with was K-D, imagine my surprise. The up shot is that the double flare tooling from Mac Tools was the one that he liked.
If you want to up the ante, go for the .875" rear wheel cylinders along with the Toyota calipers. They are used on the MK I Sunbeam Alpine and just about every four wheel Morgan ever made. The casting is externally the same as the TR6 cylinder, it is a pure remove and replace, no mods required. Girling part number is 64673804. Bought mine from Classic Sunbeam Auto Parts, Ossining NY. On the web at http://classicsumbeam.com
|I don't know about the conversion, but it's really pretty cheap & easy to overhaul the calipers. I just did it a couple months ago because of a sticking piston (some rust). Everything cleaned up nicely, and the whole job just took a couple hours for both sides.|
|Thanks the ideas, was going to try the Craftsman set but will look into having sombody do it, Steve P on your post to my previous question you wrote of a rear disk conversion would you share some details?Jeff|
|Jeff, check your e-mail.|
|A TR6 4 pot caliper Toyota conversion is up for sale on eBay at:|
The seller has done a nice job of packaging up all the stuff but this is big bucks.
In my humble opinion, unless you are full out racing your car you don't need any brake upgrades. The stock braking on a TR6 is excellent.
I'd bet you'll never fade your stock brakes on the street.
I rebuilt my stock calipers for about 50 bucks and it was a piece of cake job that required no special tools.
|In answer to Jeff's original query, unless you need to replace the 'hard' brakeline - Don't!|
No doubt you will be fitting aeroquip or other steel braided flexible brake lines. Ask your supplier for imperial at one end and metric at the other. If they make them up themselves, which is a sign of a good supplier, this will be no problem.
|A couple of things. There are six hard lines and two flexible lines in the front brake circuit on the TR6. Two of the hard lines, one left hand side, one right hand side, are fixed to the calipers at one end and to the flex line at the other. The goal there is to keep the hydraulic lines from fouling the front suspension. It is rather tight back there and the hard lines to the calipers must be used. These are the lines that will have to be custom fabricated. Reuse of the standard TR6 lines is not an option even with the Girling metric version as the routing and pipe length is different. Bottom line, if you make any brake conversion, you will be faced with fabricating hard hydraulic lines. |
As far as the cost of a conversion vs. the stock set up, well that is really beside the point when making a modification. It comes back to that old saying of "If you want to play, you've got to pay." For the most part these things are just overgrown toys for overgrown kids. How many out there are still using their TR6s as a daily driver? I know that I had pretty much stopped using mine as a daily driver about seven to eight years ago. Modifying the cars, this is how some of us play and we accept the cost associated with it or we would not be playing in that manner. Other's play by making the car as close to the way it was when it left the factory for VTR purposes, which can also be an effective mechanism of seperating one from their money. Then there are some that just take them out and drive them and do what it takes to keep them going, those that do this can offer evidence that there is a cost associated with going this route too. Eventually, everyone probably swings from one camp to another to some limited degree or over time. Nothing wrong with any of these methods of playing, just variations on the same game.
While my TR6 is modified in some subtle and not so subtle ways, but I can pretty much guarantee that it would not raise the blood pressure of the purists near as much as the 914 we are playing with. There are going to be some people in need of fresh pants when that thing is finished and presented to the world..........
|Steve P- I take it your not going to hare your experience about the rear disc set up?|
|One rear disc set up is dialed in, but is not street legal in most locales due to having no emergency/parking brake provision. This set up was originally developed for racers and is currently in use on some SCCA E Production cars and on some street cars. If you are willing to run with no emergency brake, then other than being a minor scofflaw, there is nothing to keep anyone from going that route. I personally have not run it on my own cars yet, but do know someone local to me that is using it on a street car and a couple of racers running it. I have the pieces for this set up, but will be using it on a TR250 that we plan on setting up as a vintage racer, yet another silly project to keep us occupied, probably a year or two down the road before we get really serious with that one. Total cost by the time you get the brackets, discs, calipers, pads, assorted hardware and hydraulic bits is somewhere in the $800-900 USD range. If anyone is interested, I can put you in touch with the bracket and disc source. The balance of the stuff is off the shelf from any number of suppliers.|
I have also been working on a set up with am emergency/parking brake provision, but then things got busy at work and more immediate work on my TR6 loomed and I have back burnered it for the time being. It will use a similar bracket set up as the race version, but have some Ford single piston rear calipers with emergency brake equipment built in as opposed to the four piston calipers on the rear race set up. It is doable, but I have not worked out all the details yet. Another set up that I have been playing with uses the same calipers, discs and brackets (modified) as the race set up, but would also have seperate small mechanically operated calipers on their own bracket. Packaging is more of a problem with this and it is not as far along as the single piston set up. It may not be doable without modification to structure and I will not take it down that path, it is still in the investigation stage. Either way, the emergency brake set up will run into even more money by the time it is all said and done.
|I would love to see your shop|
|I can email you guys some pictures and info on how to do the rear disc brakes. Just let me know.|
|I can vouch for Steve P.'s shop, huge with a lot of toys and tools.|
This thread was discussed between 03/01/2003 and 22/01/2003
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