MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

TR parts and Triumph parts, TR bits, Triumph Car Spares and accessories are available for TR2, TR3, TR3A, TR4, TR4A, TR5, TR6, TR7, TR8, Spitfire and Stag and other TR models are available from British car spares and parts company LBCarCo.

Triumph TR6 - Cabin Fever

noun (Canadian) acute depression resulting from being isolated or sharing cramped quarters in the wilderness, esp. during the long northern winter

STATUS REPORT on Dash Pad and wiring harness replacement on my '76 TR6 - "working in cramped quarters".

TRF wiring harness was returned yesterday because one ground wire to the instrument panel light was discovered missing during prep work. (Very odd) New harness should be in by next weekend.

Removed my windshield (thanks to WD40) and the dash pad.

QUESTION: There were five bolts that secured the Scuttle panel to the metal fascia. Dash pad was clamped in between.

The bolts appear to be permanent. So...how do I slip the vinyl between the scuttle and fascia? Do I cut a line in the vinyl to the pre-cut bolt hole? Or should I insist that be bolts come out?

Qustion #2 My garage is hovering around +5 Degree Celcius with a heater. Epoxy requires 10 degrees. I'm considering construction adhesive as an alternative. Any better ideas? (No I don't want to wait until April to replace the dash pad.)





Mati Holland

Hey, Mati. Can't help with question #1.

For #2, with epoxy there is "resin" and "hardner". You can use more hardner than the typical 1:1 ratio if it's really cold, but if you go to 2:1 or more it won't be as strong. Make sure the glue is warm before you start, too.

There's also urethane glue (Gorilla Glue, and an Elmer's equivalent, Ultimate Glue). Good stuff, it will bond at 5C, but should be used sparingly. It WILL expand so if you use too much there will be foam to clean up. It needs water to react - so with dry air a surface will need to be wiped with a wet rag prior to bonding.

BB
Brent B

Hey Mati....you are right, just cut a slot to allow the stud to stick through the vinyl. When you get it positioned exactly where you want it (before glue) just press the vinyl hard against the stud, and cut where the imprint is. It'll fit perfect! BTW, I used 3M Fast Tack Trim Adhesive 08031. Worked fine for me, and it wasn't all that warm in my garage when I put it on. Assuming your windshield frame is out, when you re-install that and the dash fascia, they pretty much secure the dash pad anyway, so don't worry about it going too far!

Rod
Rod Nichols

Mati
Like u (and Rod) said...cut a line in the vinyl to the hole. Easier if the line becomes more of a slot...width of the bolt and yes the bolts are permanent.
I did not use any glue at all when installing my new dash pad. There is plenty of "hold in place" screws. The dash pad will not move at all when u get the windshield frame back in place along with the demister vents. Put the ash tray in first before reinstalling the dash pad.
Bummer on the wiring harness.
Rick
Rick Crawford

Sorry for this question guys. Don't know of any permanent bolts? Please fill me in.

If its your own garage Mati throw some insulation up and check out a space heater. Not the little kerosene or electric, useless. If your gas, Williams makes one that will heat you up without insulating with a 3 inch wall vent. About $750 home depot. That's doing it the rich way.

Or talk to your local small heating guy. Used gas house furnaces are a dime a dozen and don't take up much space. Should go for about $150. But will need about $200 more fixturing. Get 3 quotes to run gas line if your not comfortable doing yourself. Natural gas is 4 psi. propane is 20. Can you hook up the barbecue? And no there is no law according to Union gas that requires a licenced gas fitter? Good idea if you aren't sure but not mandatory.

Watched a licenced gas fitter aand friend hooking up a very fancy gas fireplace in my daughters home years ago check all the fittings for leaks with a lighter. When I suggested a soap solution might be safer he pointed out not as reliable and from the safety point asked if I had ever had a lighter blow up in my hand? Slight leak slight flame quarter turn pipe wrench done.

The garage I rent is 2 story reasonably insulated. Too far back from the owners house for me to run gas line as a renter. My Brunswick oil stove is about 30 years old. A lot slower than the gas. I bought it 15 years ago $50 bucks as an overnight supplement to the barrel wood stove for paint drying when I had the big shop on the farm. Designed to run on #1 stove oil. Not easy to get so I run diesel. Works perfect and no smell or complaints. From zero to 70 2 hours 785 square main feet 2 story. Only heat it while I'm there. $30 in deisel Nov. 5 is still running. I put a 45 gallon oil barrel outside to hold fuel 3/8 copper piped inside.

Sorry Mati all the yap not meant for you alone. Hate seeing so many fella's freezing when it's quite easy to heat the place up.
Bill

Bill Brayford

Interesting comments Bill.

I'm in a 2 car, fully insulated, heck, the new garage door is R10, garage.

I use a Kerosun heater just now and it works dandy. Takes 30 min to make it comfy enough to work in there.

I'm about to run a gas line from the basement to the garage and go with one of the regular heaters from Home Depot. There's enough air leaks here and there to insure that I don't suffocate. I DID put an alarm in there when I started using the Kerosun heater. Hasn't gone off yet.

I'm going to nat gas on accounta I'm tired of the oil in the air from the kero heater and I'm tired of buying kero. The cost per BTU with nat gas is SO much lower.

My .02 (US, not Canadian. <G>)

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Since my garage is still new, and not completely finished on the inside, I've been using a "torpedo" heater to warm it up. This is the kind of heater that contractor's use to heat houses under construction. It uses kerosene and fan-forced air. Looks like the exhaust of a jet engine, and is almost as noisy. I've wired it to a thermostat, so it automatically turns on and off; however, I don't leave it running when I'm not in the garage.

Since my garage has 1600 square feet, the heater (175,000 BTU) will only raise the temperature about 20 degrees.

I have arranged with a contractor to install HVAC (in a couple of weeks), and then I should have both air conditioning and heat. Then I can insulate, drywall, and paint the remaining wall.

Then it will be time to insulate the attic and install a ceiling so I don't lose all my heat through the roof.
R.C. Blair


I've looked into the heating alternatives but almost every search I did on the internet lead to a cornoner's inquest.

It all comes down to venting, fresh air and $$, but for the amount of time I spend in there, it's probably not worth it. I also heard a report in the news this weekend that people who live in cold climates live longer. Something about how the body adapts. I would really like to see what driving at TR6 at 60+ yrs of age feels like. :-)

Bill, the five bolts are hung from the scuttle into the metal fascia. They are flat (ie no bolt head) and the nut goes on from inside the metal fascia creating a clamping effect between the two surfaces. Because I can't lift the bolts up (welded?) I can't get the bolts throught the pre-cut vinyl holes. I gave them a whack but they look solid. After that it means bending the fascia etc (NO NO NO) or (as suggested) cutting the vinyl.

Mati

Why would anyone put heat in their garage? It's already so damn hot in there. By the way, Jim, I was in Phoenix for a week and just got back here tonight. Their weather, right now, is a teeny bit cooler (lows in the mid 50's) than ours, but we have a lot more humidity. It just seems like I go from one warm place to another. John.
JL Bryan

Mati

Why not just yank out the metal dash face. Its v grooved on those studs. Put the studs through holes in pad flip over and carefully put the plate back in after you paint it with a rubber mallet. It just flexes in. Thats what I did about 15 years ago. Don't remember having too much trouble.

OK guys from an old Canadian on heating.

Mati I have never had a problem with toxics in 40 years. Using wood/oil/gas. Do it right and it works. Enjoyment factor goes up as well.

If the garage is attached to the house move. Stupidest idea known to man. Easy to heat though. And will improve that cold room above garage imensely. Limits in what you can do in the garage though. Compressor noise P/Os the wife along with paint fumes and lord knows what else. Point out that little space over in the corner were she can do her crafts and start her flowers. May give some leeway till you get overspray on the petunia's? Insulate well. 3" wall vent heater suited for cubic feet will work fine.

Jim I don't like the units that use outside air for combustion. They don't draw off the dampness. Regular wall vented seem to be fine. Couple of guys have them here.

Pat bought a regular used gas furnace due to people upgrading to high efficiency. Couple of the boys in the business installed the whole works under table for about $400 total cost. Ran some minimal ducting down to the floor and its the best system I have seen. Wall thermostat and all.

If the garage is detached. Insulate and that includes in the south. Mine stays cool in summer and we are hot and humid for a couple of months. Its cheap and works. Any furnace/ wood oil gas will get you warm and for "Mr. I'm too hot" a window air conditioner works great if its insulated.




Bill Brayford

Thanks for that Bill, I plan on using internal air for combustion for just that reason.

John, you may kiss my ENTIRE posterior, Sir. <G>

That's it. Everyone to John's house for beer.

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Bill,
I'm in one of those attached garages. Just moved in
last month. Garage is unheated at the moment but I like your idea about the used furnace. About the
compressor, I was going to box it in and insulate
then punch a hole though the wall and bring the air in
that way. Do you think that would be quieter?
Christopher Trace

700 sq. desinated just for the TR w/ R-30 in the ceiling and R-19 inthe walls and I just finished the sheetrock. After paint comes the 45,000 BTU heater. Figure by the time I am done it will be about 80 outside.
Don k.
DON KELLY

Hi Chris

Furnace: I don't know if the igniter or pilot light type would be the best for garage due to intermittent use. Will call Pat and find out what he uses. ASK whoever installs for opinion? If garage has small amounts of vapor the pilot light will burn off slow if your painting. Varathaning home progects are worse than painting a car for flamables. I don't see any problems with either though with common sense.

Get a flex fit barbi connect as well garage front for the next winter get together you host.:)

Thermostat just ouside back door would work for me. We had our furnace upgraded to mid eff. 1300 sq. bungalow a few years back and the fella asked if I wanted the old furnace or should they take it away free. No charge for removal? I said take it. Get the point?

Compressor: If you have a 120/220 20 gallon tank smaller type build a skid or floor for it. Keeps it off the cement. Floor or skid do not nail it or screw it to the cement. Otherwise you will get a hammering resonance inside if you forget and leave it on some night. Don't know if you plan on running air lines but even the small comressors get pretty hot. Plus outside noise may PO next door? I'd just fab up something using sound insulation and a low cold intake hot out upper directed at something dense should be quiet. The cooling on most is the drive wheels so send the air there upper oposite.

If you have a large upright keep it on a heavy wood skid. Resonance will go through next door houses basements a 100 feet away? Been there.

Large uprights :
There is no way short of building a block substructure to make a larger compressor wife friendly? In a seperate insulated shed keep it off the floor. 2/6 skid or heavy raised floor. Will resonate to next door as well as your own basement. Nope the rubber pads sold for them do not work for residential.

Bill




Bill Brayford

To all
Sorry to put a damper on all this talk about heating a garage but I feel I must. The BIG question that has not been addressed her is building code. I will take an educated guess here but I do not think it is allowed to put a seperate heating source in a garage. Keep in mind I am only talking about an "attached" garage...seperate builings are a bird of a different feather...ducks. I know it is not legal to take a duct off your existing (in house) furnace and send it to the garage.
I know, you plan to be in the garage when it is operating and will keep an eye on it. Well that brings up another issue. We all know what a furnace requires for combustion. Unfortunately, that is the same thing we need to keep us mere mortals alive. There is only one source of heat that does not use the air we breath and that is electric heat.
Finally there is the issue of insurance. We would never wish any sort of disaster on anybody. I point out though, should a fire start in the garage and it is determined that the fire started from this new heat source....are you insured?????...is your little beauty insured????
I am not innocent here..I have used them all but now I heat using electric heat.
Food for thought
Rick C
Rick Crawford

RickC
Called fire dept. safety office. Nope there are at least 100 heated attached garages in Guelph. Originally built that way. Unit must be 48" above floor and properly installed and vented. Will it cause problems with my insurance? Can't see how if properly installed and serviced.

They prefer the gas overhead radiant heaters for shops and garages. More economical in long run and thats what they use in firehalls. I like them too as long as you have room to point them at the floor not the car. They heat the object not the air. Don't require a chimney and don't take up floor space. So thats a bonus.

Building dept. Yep every area has different codes. Gotta check yours. For here from the building inspector. Actualy the "burner" has to be 48" above the floor. Either way the higher the unit off the floor the less you will pay for those ducts running over the rafters to blow down like in the basement. And your chimney pipe cost is less. Do I need a permit or inspection. No not if installed by furnace installer.

Very few Gas furnaces of the millions in use in the basement have outside fresh air for combustion. Very few basements have as many air leaks as a garage. Air for combustion is not a problem.

Only house around here with Electric heat recently got an environment grant to reno to gas.

Duct to the garage is not allowed due to the monoxide from car. Might add to the amount that comes in through your back door?

My own feelings are if you keep the daily driver in as well. Move it out before bring up temp. unless working on it. Makes them rust like crazy. Plus you will need a drain just to get rid of the water. Other option is divide garage insulated wall if its a multi door. Then you have the best of both.

Bill




Bill Brayford

Bill
Interesting, I would have thought the fire Dept. would not like (or condone) this situation. Agreed, the bottom line is check local code. Would not do any harm to ask your insurance agent after all, they are the one you will be dealing with should a disaster occur.
Not sure if the gas radiant would work in a home garage as ceiling is much lower than in a building I have seen them installed...might cook the paint job. I do not have the answers to my questions...like I said, food for thought. We all agree on safety first.
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Building inspector in Wa. didn't have any problem with my overhead heater. But he did ding me for $50 for not including the stat in the permit. Sheez!!!
Don K.
DON KELLY

Looks like ya got goosed Don! You did not think he was going to walk outa there without finding some problem...after all, someone has to pay for his trip out to your place. Don send me a .pic of your garage, would like to see it.
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Something that I received today that some of us would understand all too well.....

50 Fahrenheit (10 C)
Californians shiver uncontrollably,
Canadians plant gardens.

35 Fahrenheit (1.6 C)
Italian cars won't start,
Canadians drive with the windows down.

32 Fahrenheit (0 C)
American water freezes,
Canadian water gets thicker.

0 Fahrenheit (-17.9 C)
New York City landlords finally turn on the heat,
Canadians have the last barbecue of the season.

-60 Fahrenheit (-51 C)
Mt. St. Helens freezes,
Canadians Girl Guides sell cookies door to door.

-100 Fahrenheit (-73 C)
Santa Claus abandons the North Pole,
Ottawa canal opens for skating.

-173 Fahrenheit (-114 C)
Ethyl alcohol freezes,
Canadians get frustrated when they can't thaw the keg.

-460 Fahrenheit (-273 C)
Absolute zero; all atomic motion stops,
Canadians start saying "cold eh?"

-500 Fahrenheit (-295 C)
Hell freezes over,
Leafs win Stanley Cup.
Mati

We are now experience wonderful "cool, dry" Canadian air mixing with the wonderful "hot, moist" Florida air. There's about 8 inches of "Wonderful" outside right now.

Bob (not cold enough to freeze the keg (yet))
R.C. Blair

Mati
EXCELLENT! good chuckle
Heck...I have the biggest beer fridge in the world for half the year.

The Leafs...Now ain't that the truth:)
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Well Bob things could be worse.
Hell I've seen 8" inches of snow fall on my birthday.

I grew up in the North of Saskatchewan. And moved North as a young man. Spent 10 years further North and across the Hudsons Bay from where these pics are from, Churchill, Ennadai lake and Thompson.

This is April 2002 spring cleaning Canadian style in Labrador.

http://www.edu.gov.nf.ca/snow/photo.htm

By the way I was born on July 12th.

Bill

Bill Brayford

Geez - you make Florida look better & better!!
Brent B

Ahhh, the Treasure Coast of Florida. After a frigid cold front last weekend that kept daytime temps from ever getting above 65, it warmed up again. The only complaint is that it rains when the fronts go through, so while it is in the mid 70's today, it will probably rain off and on. But a new cold front is coming and we should shortly have lows in the 50's and highs in the mid 60's again. It really is perfect top down weather here from around late October until late May or early June. John.

By the way, your heated garage comments made me think about whether I could AC mine--our summers are so hot, humid and wet that the cars pretty much have to stay in the garage except for some evening drives. And it is a pain to work on them in the summer because one sweats all over everything. I wonder if my wonderful wife would mind if I air conditioned the garage?
JL Bryan

John,

A good buddy of mine lives in Orlando and he bought a window air conditioner, put a hole in his access door (the side door) and bolted 'er up.

He says it works the nuts.

Go for it. I may aircondition mine too using the same method. It does get hot here in the summer. Sometimes. Sort of.

Jim (brrrrrrrrr)
Jim Deatsch

That is some SNOW!!! Makes me embarrassed for complaining!

Ok - you Canadian guys need heat in your garages. You Florida guys need air conditioning in your garages.

But us Mid-Atlantic guys need both heat and AC!!! Luckily, my contractor is due to start next week putting central air and heat into my garage. (Almost $5000 worth!).

But in order to do part of the work, I have to park the Porsche, the TR6, two Harleys, and a BMW outside in the cold for one day. It better not rain!


R.C. Blair

Bob,

You can keep the Porsche at my place while they're working on your garage. Of course
I'll be sure to start it now and then to keep the battery charged. ;)

Don from Jersey
D Hasara

Jim, I don't think my homeowners association would allow that kind of AC. But, it seems to me that it would be fairly simple to branch off of the ductwork in the attic above the kitchen, next to the garage, and run a new duct down to the garage. I mean, if I can figure out how to change the oil on a TR6, that ought to be a piece of cake. Assuming there is capacity and all that stuff. Sounds like a good idea, actually. John.
JL Bryan

Thanks for the offer Don, wait by the phone for my call! :)

R.C. Blair

Ha Bill
When did u sneak up to my home to take those pictures of the guys doin' my front drive?
Finally I can get out for a beer run!
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Jl air ducting goes 2 ways reason for not running heating ducts from house into garage. Not legal anywhere or advisable. Even without a cold air or hot air intake in your case which you need. When the unit is not pushing air your car can load up the system with carbon monoxide. May give new meaning to kiss the wife and kids goodbye.

Don't know about down there but a window air is OK anywhere here as long as the Hydro in the garage is adequate for the load. Insulate though or watch the hydro bill go sky high.

Dang there Bob my heart bleeds for ya buddy. Just press on you'll get through it.:)

Ya Rick I hear ya!! Only people with smiles on there faces around here, also have snow plows on the front of there trucks.

Bill

Bill Brayford

This thread was discussed between 11/01/2004 and 28/01/2004

Triumph TR6 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live Triumph TR6 BBS is active now.