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Triumph TR6 - Chassis/Frame Measurements

Hi All

Does anyone have any info on TR6 frame measurements?? Please look in any books you have.

I have the original Leyland manual and by it frames short in alignment length by 1 1/2 on passengers and 1 3/4 on drivers. Overall length by there measurements is out same but only front area. I can see a pop on drivers side and can work out the 1/2 to the 3/4. The extra 1 1/2 overall is driving me nuts.

The driver side front has always been a problem for alignment so I knew it was out but marginal not a total 1 3/4. Been that way 20 years owned.

Bobbing and chalking at least 4 times I keep coming up same.
The sideways measurements are right on by the book so theres no spread absorption. At least by that book?

Any idea's are greeted with open arms.

Bill
Bill Brayford

Bill,

You have mail.

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Bill - Does your TR6 get junk mail about "size is important" ?

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

Thanks Jim thats the one I have but your book must be a better print. Much clearer. Will recheck. The floor looks like a hopscotch pad now?

Geeez DonE That must be it. And here I thought they were aimed at me..:)

Bill >>heading for drugstore :)
Bill Brayford

Hopscotch? Hmmm. I'm a little worried Bill. That was always a girl's game where I grew up.
Has that goose been talking again?

Glad it's a help.

Jim (gets size mail ALL the time, someone's been talking methinks)
Jim Deatsch

Don's solution has it? I knew there were a couple of dimples but could not see a loss of more than a 1/4 inch. Since frames only 16 gage I only sandblast areas I work on leaving total blast to last, saves metal.

Staring at the area of lost 1 1/2" on front end. I grabbed the angle die grinder and cleaned up a bit. Clean metal/ rust/ clean metal/ rust. "The frames wrinkled" . Glad I am a bit conservative, read cheap. The sandblaster doesn't care about waves and hollows. Put 80 grit on the longboard and it showed up the areas perfect.

Had noticed a lot of dimples at bottom just under where front of drivers door would be. Blamed that on idiot Jacking with no support. Now I think it was an idiot bodyman trying to align the car after a front ender. Punched back on one side no problem we'll just dimple this side back to match.

Plan is to gently board the area for high points and then blast. Cut out some of the box sections on both sides and bump and planish rails equal and carefull. Curved sections so will be fun :)

Question for Engineers? Metal brought back cold should retain strengh right? Minor upset not folded.

If all else fails determining safety I'll just loan it to Bryn for a week. If it comes back with all 4 wheels pointing in the same direction its a keeper...:)

Bill


Bill Brayford

Bill, check your e-mail for questions, thoughts on build tolerance stack up.
SteveP

Bill:

Regarding your question about metals:

The Elastic Limit is when the metal is bent or stretched past the point at which it will not return to the original position.

The Yield is when the metal is stretched beyond the elastic limit, but the metal still retains strength.

The Ultimate Strength is when the metal actually breaks.

Anytime the elastic limit of a material is exceeded, the atoms have been re-arranged, usually resulting is a slighlty thinner piece of metal (tension) or slightly thicker (compression).

If a piece of metal is bent repeatedly, crystallization occurs, also called Fatigue.

So, to make this short, if a piece of metal is slightly bent one time, it loses a little of its strength. Bending it a second time loses more strength (that's why reinforcing steel in a building is only allowed to be bent once).

If you heat the metal before bending, less crystallization occurs, due to the higher activity of the atoms (they are bouncing around a lot more, and don't fall into a crystal lattice.

The ultimate fix would be to either cut out the dimpled section and weld in new steel, or overlay the dimpled section with additional steel.

However, with regards to your dimples (the car's that is), planishing the dimples causes the atoms to flow and maintain a greater amount of their original strength. So, while it will never be as strong as it originally was, you probably will never know it. The metal was still in the Yield phase.

Class is dismissed for today.

I need a beer.

R.C. Blair

Thanks Bob
Helps me to gather a plan of attack?

Regarding Don and Jim and now your comments on my physical attributes?

Driving hot cars works better than Any V series Don

No dimples here, old and skinny Bob.

Can still play hopscotch with my Grandaughters Jim.

I will have you know I resemble all of the above. But no delusions as Jim has regarding a 56 footer post that was thankfully cut before it got carried away. Did have a good zing there though. Hate when that happens.
Bill

Bill Brayford

Not sure I followed all that, but if you shorten the chassis you will have to shorten the prop shaft, won't you?
Is it at an angle now? Should be obvious if its out that much.
Did you measure diagonally, and did the diagonals cross on the centre line?
Simon, (puzzled.)
Simon

Now I'm confused.

56 footer? Not me. Nevah had a boat that long. <G>

My oldest granddaughter is only 4 and she wouldn't be caught dead playing hopscotch. Not sophisticated enough.

Now the YOUNGEST one, watch out!

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Since we're talking prop shafts here, why is the TR drive shaft splined? I can't think of any suspension travel requiring splined movement.

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

I don't understand Rick.

Splined at the slip joint you mean?

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Yea, splined slip joint near the gearbox output flange. At least I think that's what it is based on the Moss catalog drawing (haven't had mine apart . . . yet).

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Rick O and Jim
Yup it is splined. Why...ya got me. Maybe to make life easier for a re and re. If I recall, it is not "keyed" so you CAN misalign the u joints. ( Rick, seems it was you that corrected me on this for the rear axle splines a couple of years back:)
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Perhaps another BL cost savings measure to use a driveshaft from another model that didn't have IRS?

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Yup-Same drive shaft as was used since the TR2. I used to grease the splines until it dawned on me that they didn't move on the IRS cars.
Berry
Berry Price

Man, was *I* out to lunch.

I finally figured out the reason for the question.

IRS. duh.

I'll go back to sleep now.

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Engine/transmission and differential are all rubber mounted. Frame "believe" me has a bit of flex. There should be some available movement in the spline for and aft at hard braking and take off due to mass of engine/transmission. There is a bit of wind up that happens as well. Can cause clunks not related to diff. mounts if to tight. "My opinion only" of course.

Simon it had been shortened more on the one side then other due to a DPO and the body shop rather than pulling it shortened other side to square it up. Bodyshop used a hammer to put dimples in the tin sort of like crumpled paper will be a bit shorter. And yes your right the prop shaft was wedged in tight on mine. I bought the car in 83 and never crashed.

SteveP has given me a huge lot of help via E-mails and thinks probably an early fix. Cars a 72. Bodyshops would not have the equipment they have now with unibody. The work I am doing is removing all wrinkles both sides as best possible to lengthen again sort of ironing the paper while keeping strength and straight. Both Bob and Steve have given great advice regarding metal properties. Jim mailed me specs. from a more recent and clearer book than mine.

Hang in there Jim.
Kids 38/32/ biggerhouse/23/18. Wife sent me and the dog out for a little fix same week 19 years ago. That is not a lie! I never marked the couch once. Go figure?

With only 2 producing so far. Grandkids 17/13/12 3k miles away. 3/1 and 1 in production here. Rylees 3 and thinks Poppas chalk marks are silly for hopscotch. So she puts flowers on them...:)

Bill
Bill Brayford

Bill
I am jealious...so many grandchildren...you get (got) to spend more time in the toy department but then maybe I am not jealious$$$$!!.
I only have 2...the older, Ricky, is always up to a ride in my 6 and when we babysit we have to get the electric car race set out. The younger, Hannah, is real proud she can do a balancing act while standing on her feet...still waiting for that first step on her own then look out! :)

If we did not have grandchildren we would not spend time in the toy department...life is grand!
Rick C
Rick Crawford

Bill, check your e-mail
SteveP

This thread was discussed between 02/11/2003 and 16/11/2003

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