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Triumph TR6 - clacking noise

I have a 1976 TR6. Last year at speed I noticed an intermittent clacking noise. I thought it was perhaps the seat belt hanging out the door, or a rubber piece or strap hanging under the car which was flopping around. Neither was the case. Did not give it much further thought and began working on the car throughout the winter. Upon resealing the differential and draining it out, several teeth dropped out. Mentioned the clack to my mechanic and he thought it could have been due to the several teeth missing in the gears. Did an oil change today, and while gently reving the engine at the carb linkage, I heard this clack again. This time with my hand on carb, I was also able to feel it through the engine. No clack at idle, but upon slightly reving the engine, and maintaining maybe 1500rpm there is this intermittent clack. I shut things down and returned an hour later to try to diagnose the problem, started the engine, let it warm up and no clack. I know for sure that it is the same noise I heard last summer. Has anybody had a similar experience, or are there any ideas? The noise is not constant with the running of the engine, and may apparently come and go. It is not a clunk, clank, but definitely a clack. Thanks!
D Burstyn

Sorry don't know your name?

Hydraulic valve lifter is most likely from description. If one does not pump up it clacks. Run some top lube for a couple of oil changes to see if it clears.

Couple of teeth dropping out of the diff won't cause clacking sitting still. May cause a big bang running?? Did you find where they were off? May be just a small bit off crown if still running OK.

Bill
Bill Brayford

I bought a rebuilt diff and replaced the one missing the teeth. Ouch!!! What do you mean "pump up"?. Thanks for the reply. The alternator is new, I thought maybe the water pump.
D Burstyn

Hi do you have a first name?

Anyway the water pump bearings can make a clatter sound? But usally don't just go away.

The lifters are like a hydraulic device that fill with oil or pumps up to stay in contact with the valve push rods. Adjusting for cam lobe wear etc. They get gummy sometimes and don't fill properly. Most likely if you hear just beside the sparkplugs with probe on the block.

Best way to check is buy a length of hardwood dowel or a mechanics stethascope. When the problem is occuring listen for it by touching various engine areas to isolate.

Yep the hardwood works just wrap your thumb over it and stick thumb nuckle in your ear. Lean against it and you will hear isolated internal sounds.

Bill


Bill Brayford

Bill,

Thank you very much. I am going to check it out. I purchased this car last summer and am slowly going over it, drive and restore. This year was all the mechanics, next will be dashboard, paint then interior etc. This board has been a valuable source of information, and this has been my first post. I am just outside of Windsor. Thanks!

Dave
D Burstyn

Hi Bill
Unless the US cars are different or you guys have a different name for it TR6s were'nt fitted with hydraulic lifters
Ron
R. Algie

Dave

It might be the starter pinion that is not coming fully back after starting and the clack may be the flywheel teeth hitting the pinion. Or the gear ring on the starter may have moved causu/ing the same thing.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

Dave, have you adjusted the valves yet? Checked the timing? Maybe a little bit of detonation(spark knock).
Gene Holtzclaw

My Duh dumb thought for that day!

Ron is correct mechanical tappets for the TRs.

Sorry I will go to my corner and hide after that goof...:)

Bill wearing dunce cap
Bill Brayford

You're not alone Bill.

Is it possible we have a broken piston skirt here? That's a rather interesting clack as well.

It's so hard to describe a sound.

We might also have a rocker that's screwed up, a pushrod that's running off the cup?

I'm reaching here.

Is the noise in the top end or the bottom end? Here's where the hardwood dowl comes in. A piece of rubber hose works well too.

Jim
Jim Deatsch

Thanks for all your imput. I ran the car this morning and no matter what I did, I could not make the noise come back. Took it for a ride and the sound appeared. No problem hearing it in the car at 70mph, very sharp clack, would swear the seat belt was flopping around and hitting the side of the car, very intermittent, would stop for a few minutes, then start again, no pattern whatsoever, could feel it with my hand on the shifter, pulled over and listened around with a long pry bar at my ear. It appears to be near the bottom, I think could be the starter, or something with the clutch in the bell housing. Going to put it on a hoist with someone reving it, with a mechanic stethiscope and pin point it down. Will let you know, but in the meantime any imput is appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
D Burstyn

Here's a guess - could the thrust washers be worn to the point where the flywheel is floating around and ring gear is contacting the starter gear? Kinda like what Don was saying.

You could pull the starter and look at the the gear. Also would be good to do the thrust washer check. Look here:

http://www.tr6web.com/Documents/tr6/tr6procedures.htm
Brent B

I would think if it's clutch or end float related, it would change with the clutch depressed. The word clack makes me think of valve clearance changing (like one of the springs on the rocker shaft is weak or broken, letting the rocker hit the top of the valve off center). I don't think you'd feel that through the shifter, though. I seem to remember a sort of clacking intermittently that was a throwout bearing. I didn't fix it yet, the TR3's been sitting since 1987. But I know what the problem is (mine). The transmission was rebuilt by a guy that must have thought the clutch shaft bushings weren't necessary. So when I pull the transmission, I'll put them in. I think I could put the right side one in without the pull, but the other side needs a visit to the infamous tapered pin holding the fork onto the shaft (which might be more food for thought in this thread). So, back to D's problem. Does the clutch disengage properly? Does the noise go away when you push in the clutch? Get worse? Change in any way? With luck like mine, you'll get it on a lift and it won't make the noise. But you'll probably find something else to fix while you're there!

You could call Tom and Ray, the tappet brothers, hehe.
Tom

Is it one clack you get ? When the clack starts, is it a continuous clack, clack, clack, clack, etc. . . . . ?

If it's the latter, can you hear if it increases when you speed up. Does it decrease when you slow down ? Can you count for 30 seconds how many you get and at the same time note the steady RPM ? Then you may be able to get to the source.

If your tack says 3000 RPM and you count 30 clacks in 30 seconds, you know it's not in the engine. Could be the seat belt ?

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal, Canada
Don Elliott

Clack... Clack... Clack... Sounds to me like a goose with a sinus infection.

(Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!)

R.C. Blair

Sick, Sick, SICK I tell you.

EVERYONE knows that geese don't CLACK, they HONK!

jeesh.
Jim Deatsch

thought I'd report to my findings. After my last post I enlisted the assistance of a buddy to rev the car while it is up on the hoist. It was at night time and while warming up the engine, in the dark I was shocked to see that the exhaust manifold along with as much exhaust system visible from under the hood was glowing cherry red. It ends up that the retard of the distributor was siezed and fuel was burning inside the exhaust. Sent the distributor off for rebuild, and at the same time measured the end float of the crank, which was .0012. Ordered new thrust washer and is to be installed next weekend. Anyways, with the car on the hoist i noticed that the arm which connects to the clutch slave cylander and works the throw out bearing had slack in it, and with the car running, it could be moved back and forth, and with each movement was the infamous "clack". I have installed a new clutch master and slave and the slack is gone. The car is still on the hoist with no oil in the pan and next weekend the new thrust washer goes in and I will be able to start and drive the car. I am sure the poorly operating hydralics was the problem and now it is fixed. I have been doing a complete mechanical restoration to this car, will be paint next year, then interior and dash the winter after. Thank you all for your advice and imput.

dave
D Burstyn

Dave - Just out of curiosity was the spring inside the slave broken?

Brent
Brent B

I did not separate the engine and transmission. The slave was not returning it's full stroke. The rubbers in the master were not good and alot of black brake fluid. Your comment has just given me that sinking feeling.

dave
D Burstyn

Sorry Brent, I did not think about your question before I answered. The spring inside the slave was not broken, but the piston was half of its stroke. After removing the end cap, the exposed cylander was dry, and took alot of tapping on the work bench to get it to where it could be extracted. The spring inside was not broken, but the piston was getting hung up and I was losing clutch pedal. Sometimes had to hit the pedal twice to shift into reverse to avoid the all too familiar clunk into gear.

dave
D Burstyn

Thanks, Dave. I asked because a couple years ago I found the spring in the slave broken into 3 pieces. It was probably self -induced, though. The T.O. bearing fork pin had sheared which allowed the fork to move, and the only way to get a pedal was to move the little push rod out to the last hole and use a spacer to effectively lengthen the rod. So the spring was really being crushed when the pedal was pushed. It's good news that a new slave cyl got your clutch back - it might have been that damn pin otherwise...

Brent
Brent B

This thread was discussed between 27/03/2004 and 11/05/2004

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