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Triumph TR6 - Clutch not working
To answer your question...when is first mile?
WELLLLLLL...not yet. I have a non operational clutch. Turn engine off ,put in reverse, turn the key and she walks out of the garage...with the clutch pedal fully to the floor! Basically can not disengage the clutch.
The pedal feels softer than last year.
New DOT5 and blead...will try this again.
Have added washers to back side of slave cylinder plate ..this moves the slave towards back of car resulting in slave being closer to the clutch fork arm....more push?? This did not help.
I have about 5/8" of fork arm movement at the pin.
Installed new throw out bearing and fork arm dowel pins...the old ones where a little flat where they rode on the throw out bearing. This should have been improvement!
Greased the spline shaft.
I am suspecting a possible leak where the red flex hose attaches to the slave cylinder.
I think I will pull apart the slave and have a look at the rubber components inside. The slave was new 2001 along with the red hose.
Engine running rough at start up but timing and carbs will need adjustment.
Engine overheats quickly but I only have water in the rad..checked for leaks...none so will change over to antifreeze.
Leave tomorrow for Quebec for 1 week so another week goes buy without fixing the problems. I think I might be going to FL to bring a boat back to Canada...another 2 weeks :( Might jump ship in NY,NY and fly home. Will I be driving her this year???
When you were inside the trans clutch arear did you check the tapered pin that holds the fork to the cross shaft? I suppose you could manually pull back on the clutch lever, without the slave connected, and see if it disengages.
How well was the clutch working before you had it apart for the engine rebuild?
I know how much of a pain it is to pull the trans and then get it lined back up to reinstall so hopefully you won't have to do that. Do you still have the interior apart?
|HP Henry Patterson|
If your cooling system is full and the car still overheats I'd bet your timing is way too advanced. Water or anti-freeze won't make that kinda difference.
You'll be on the road soon !!!!
When I had that problem it was the clutch slave cyl but it appears that's not your problem. Wish I knew but have no advice to offer. However, am looking for some advice from you. You've got mail. Good luck.
|Rick It sounds like you have problems with your fluids on both counts!Firstly are you bleeding the clutch by yourself? If so get help with someone pumping the pedal and someone on the bleed screw, it is a good idea when bleeding to have NO clearance in the linkage and adjust when bled, On the overheat issue It sound like you have not bled the system fully, Fill the rad, and loosen the top hose/ heater hoses and make sure all the 'bubbles' have come out other than that I cannot see what could be the problem. If the problem persists you can buy mine as I amm selling|
|Rick-Since you have 5/8" movement at the slave cyl rod, I would think that the hydraulic system is doing its job. If you can eliminate a broken fork pin as the culprit, it maybe that the clutch disc is "frozen" to the flywheel. If you are lucky, it may be possible to break it loose without removing the transmission.|
Yup it would be a PITB if I have to pull it out.
The cooling system: It is probably low and some air bubbles. The Timing Charlie is close but will need the "tweak" thing along with the carbs.
" I suppose you could manually pull back on the clutch lever, without the slave connected, and see if it disengages." Henry, that is definitely a try. The taper pin is good. 2 times last year I had to start the car with tranny in Reverse gear then let the clutch out. I figured replacing the 2 dowel pins and new throw-out bearing would have helped. The clutch plates looked OK.
Clive did the 2 person bleed but this is definitely another "shot at it" item as DOT5 does not like to give up its tinny little bubbles. Top heater hose EH?...I suppose you mean the one entering the fire wall and not the one inside the car? Sorry to hear you are selling Clive.
Berry FROZEN??? How would one go about checking this out??
Sorry will not be able to respond till later this week...thanks again.
|Rick-Sorry I didn't give a more detailed explanation. Sometimes when a car is stored over winter, especially in a damp climate, the clutch plate will stick to the flywheel with enough force to drive the car, even though the clutch pedal is depressed and the pressure plate isn't contacting the disc. Breaking it loose sometimes requires brutality. Jack the rear wheels off the ground, select 4th gear, start the engine, rev to 2500 or more, depress clutch pedal and jam on the brakes at the same time, repeat untill successfull or frustrated enough to remove the transmission. Maybe others will have a different technique. |
I took my thermostat out and filled my cooling system up from the housing. I figured that was highest point and if I got it filled up to there the entire system would be full with no air pockets. Since I had the thermostat out to fill the system, I put it in a pan of water on the stove with a kitchen thermometer and verified it opened at the proper temp. You should have seen the look on my wife's face. Nothing better than a little poached thermostat for dinner.
|HP Henry Patterson|
Had much the same problem last year with mine. Talked to an old BL mechanic, he asked me if I bent the tab on the clutch swing arm (pedal) over to give me a bit more reach with the pedal. Sounded stupid to me, but I went through all the same with my clutch, finally crawled under the dash with vise-grips, reached up to the forward edge of the clutch pedal arm, found the tab he was talking about and bent it over to give about another bit of 'swing' at the master cyl. To me, this wasn't right, because my travel is way down at the bottom, but it is keeping me from grinding gears, and it'll do 'til I have to pull the tranny again. Don't know if this will help you or anybody else, but it did address my issue over the last year and about 8000 mi. (and hopefully more to come!)
Don't forget to check the possibilty that the plastic hose is expanding; if you haven't already changed to the braided hose.
I tried moving the slave cylinder as well when I was having clutch problems. Since the clutch is self-adjusting the piston just moves to a different position within the cylinder and you get the exact same travel as before.
Thanks for replys. Just got back from a month of business trips so can get back to work on her.
Berry, I had the engine and tranny out this early spring for engine rebuild so tranny was apart and all clutch components removed from engine. New thow-out bearing and new clutch fork pins. Clutch fork dowel pin OK. Obviously alligned clutch when reinstalled.
Will be able now to get serious with this.
Rod, just looked at the TRF bibles and not sure what "tab" you are talking about. TRF plate DL2 shows the clutch pedal and me thinks you are talking about the welded on tab that is the "stop" of pedal travel to the fire wall. Is this the criiter you refer to?
Doug, interesting, I would have thought that "shifting" to slave cylinder towards the back of car with more washers would have given "more/better/further" travel of the slave to the thow-out bearing. The plastic hose was new in 2001 but agree that this is not best choice.
Like I said, now have time to give this serious attention. Will let you know my results.
|Finally got the tranny out on Sat. |
Before the pull did a check of slave cylinder/clutch arm travel and is about 5/8". I kinda thought that the pedal felt softer though.
With help and comments it was said that 2 possibilities.
1: the clutch fork dowel pins where not riding in the throw out bearing carrier.
2: the clutch plate was installed backwards...this is what I thought as I second guessed myself.
Both are correct though after pulling apart.
My pilot bush was thought to be maybe seized and not spinning freely but is free to spin.
We compared the old throw-out bearing and carrier to the new ones...identical. The old clutch assembly to the new one (3000 miles on it). virtually identical other than the old was thinner clutch plate which makes sense. The only difference between the 2 clutch plates was the gap between the 2 plate surfaces. The new one was a bigger gap and the question came up is the thickness of the clutch plate too thick now..has it changed thickness...are the spring steel plates between the 2 clutch plates expanded??? It was as if we where grasping at straws to try to figure out why I could not release the clutch. The fly wheel can not be installed incorrectly. The bell housing can not be installed to close to the fly wheel. With the engine rebuild there is less crank walk because of new thrust washers but I am in spec. at 6 thou end float... minimum float mind you. I did have around 20 thou end float before the rebuild.
I suppose the only thing left is the hydraulic side but the 5/8" movement with pin in the center hole says it is OK.
Any thoughts are appreciated. I missed an absolute perfect day for driving yesterday:(
Although the conventional wisdom seems to indicate that 5/8" of slave cylinder push rod throw is the accepted norm, on my '71 it is definitely not. I had a similar problem to what you are describing, although not to the same degree. Long story short, I ended up using 3/8" spacers between the slave cylinder flange and the mounting bracket, resulting in considerably more throw. Not by the book, but it worked. Just a thought...
The only thing I can add.....Is the cross shaft good and solid with no play? Any kind of "slop" anywhere in the system will cause problems. Did you re-check the fork pin while you had it apart? Maybe it broke again. All things should be checked. Of course maybe you already have checked these.
|HP Henry Patterson|
|It'll probably work fine when you put it all back together. Did the disk seem stuck to the flywheel? Alignment of the gearbox, maybe?|
Jim V., I agree with an earlier post by Doug C. that moving the slave won't increase the travel, but will take up slack that might have been there.
|Jim ET AL|
I added spacers like you and made no change. Took up a all the slack though.
Henry, everything feels tight but will pull apart to check the fork pin. Doubled up on the fork arm end bearings.
Tom, Ya Murphy says it will work just fine but then Murphy plays many tricks on us. Disk was not stuck at all to the fly wheel. All surfaces very clean.
This is a stump-er! Thanks for reply guys.
|Rick-I would have bet money that the disc was stuck to the flywheel. If you put "stuck clutch" in the search engine, the problem seems to be fairly common. Sometimes the disc will practically fall off the flywheel when the pressure plate is removed, despite being unable to get it to release by driving the car. A litle rust on the flywheel might be the only evidence left. Having said that I know it would be frustrating and scary to re-install the trans. without knowing the cause of the problem for sure. If you have 5/8" pushrod movement at the slave cyl, that is about as good as it gets, even with the .75" master cyl. used on the early cars and should be adequate to release the clutch. The soft pedal might be caused by slop in the pivot points, but that contradicts the adequate movement of the slave cyl pushrod. My clutch release problem involving a soft pedal and inadequate push rod movement was solved by using the .75" master cyl. Later, I did discover that the hole in the clutch pedal arm was oval as well as the push rod clevis. You might re read the long article on clutch release problems on the Buckeye site. http://web.archive.org/web/20040606055534/http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/|
|Rick , put it back together and it will work perfectly.|
The gremlins are just having some fun with you.
What's the new $$$ total?
As Doug mentioned earlier a braided clucth hose does not expand.
This thread was discussed between 08/05/2005 and 10/06/2005
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