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Triumph TR6 - clutch slave
The piston of the slave protrudes from the body of the slave by about 1/4" every time I push the clutch pedal? Is that normal? I have taken apart and cleaned the master and the slave and everything seems to be functioning properly. I have no experience with the feel of the clutch in this car but it seems very tight.
Definitely NO. There are 3 holes on trnas, clutch arm. Have you tried the shorter action position?
|J. G. Catford|
|When you say the piston "protrudes" do you mean it comes out to far and loses fluid? I had the same problem and determined that the pin on the clutch fork was broken inside the bell housing. When the pin breaks, the slave push-rod will extend too far as the fork simply rotates on the clutch rod. |
|There is no leakage. I have tried all 3 positions on the clutch arm to no avail. The piston comes out far enough to move the rubber when I push the clutch but if I remove the slave push rod and then push the clutch it blows the piston right out of the slave body.|
You say that "When the pin breaks, the slave push-rod will extend too far as the fork simply rotates on the clutch rod" does this mean you have no clutch (not functional)
The bracket securing the slave also flexes slightly (visible) when I push the clutch.
|When I bought my TR6 the clutch worked enough to allow me to drive onto the trailer and into the garage, but by the time I was ready to drive "for real" it was very hard to engage gears. I had rebuilt the clutch hydraulics, and reused the special push rod which was on the car - it had about an inch, maybe an inch and a half, welded onto the push rod. Sounds like this was the previous owner's "solution" to the problem you are experiencing. |
I read Nelson Riedel's clutch article where he also found an extended push rod, and he made the very valid point that the gearbox cannot move aft in the car, so there should be no reason for the longer push rod. When I removed the gearbox, I found (as did Nelson) that the dreaded fork pin was broken. It didn't look broken until I removed the head of the pin, and found it much too short. It appears that the way the pin broke lead to a part of the pin to catch the fork as the shaft rotated, allowing limited clutch function at the extreme of the pedal travel.
The fix is relatively cheap (new pin) if you can stick to the essentials. When I took my gearbox out I found myself unable to resist the tempatation to do all kinds of other things "while I was in there", which made it a $500 pin swap...
Sad to tell you, but if you get 1/2 inch or more of travel at the push rod, and assuming that the hole in your pushrod isn't worn oval, then your problem pretty much has to be inside the bellhousing.
As for the slave cylinder bracket flexing, this sounds odd. I haven't measured, but I would guess that mine is at least 3/16 inch thick steel, and only maybe 2 inches at most from the fixing bolts to the slave cylinder. If you are flexing that then something, somewhere is very wrong.
Hope that helps
I thought you said you had drove the car a little bit? Maybe just onto the trailer.
It sure sounds like a broken pin as John and Alistair say.
".....push rod and then push the clutch it blows the piston right out of the slave body." This is what will happen as you are pushing against hydraulic fluid. This just says your master and slave look like they are OK. Never heard of the bracket flexing..it is about 1/4" steel plate.
You should only have about 1/2" movement of the clutch fork arm. Any more and the fork is spinning on the clutch arm = broken pin. You should NOT be able to move the clutch fork arm backwards and forwards by hand AT ALL with the slave push rod disconnected.
Unfortunately Gord this means tranny removal if the pin is broken (actually sheered).
Alistair is right in that if you get "into" the tranny then $500 is a possibility.
However, I would consider looking at the throw out bearing and carrier, the fork pins, obviously the fork arm taper pin, and finally the clutch arm bearings in the bell housing. The bearings can be doubled up (2 per side instead of 1)...more life and are not expensive at all.
It sounds like you are about to learn what DPO means.
|Gordon-Before you pull the trans., make sure that the slave cyl. is properly mounted. The slave cyl. slides into the rear (trans. side of the mounting plate). The slave cyl.mounting plate attatches to the front of the engine plate (engine side). If you have a picture in your manual, it is easier to understand than this description. If the slave cyl is on the wrong side of the bracket it can allow the piston to pop out. One common test for the dreaded broken fork pin is to place a piece of pipe over the clutch shaft lever and move it front to rear with a lot of force. It should stop postively in both directions and there shouldn't be any slippage, which would indicate a broken pin. Check out the archieves for clutch problems and Nelson Riedel's tech articles on the Buckeye site, as mentioned by Alistair.|
|Easy to do. When I mounted my slave on the wrong side,that is what the rubber boot would do, protrude from the slave. Hopefully this is what you have and not the dreaded pin.|
|Good point gents!|
|I drove the car a little bit and it drove a little bit I hope to drive it a bit more.|
Well I ran home to look at the slave and sure enough it was mounted on the wrong side of the mounting plate.
Funny thing is I couldn't move the shaft lever by hand last week so I figured remount the slave and go. Nope....for some reason I can now move the lever easily by hand.
One forward one back
Thanks for the input
Good thing there are more than 2 brains on this BBS. I did not even think about it being mounted on the wrong side. Like I said.... good point Berry and Joe...well done.
I am gathering you are saying "now the clutch will not disengage"
It is not good that you can move the clutch arm by hand. Keep in mind that under normal operation, the arm only moves about 1/2". The TR6 has a VERY heavy clutch so you should feel a good deal of pressure as you depress the pedal.
You might want to try starting the car in neutral then try to go into first gear. Obviously have a good amount of clearance in front of the car and I would suggest even having the parking brake on. Or with good clearance in front of car, be in first gear, clutch depressed, then try start the car. I would suggest removing the coil wire so the car can not actually start. Gordon obviously the above 2 tests must be done with extreme caution and with safety in mind..(that was the small print:)
If she tries to move ahead in the second situation then indeed the clutch is not disengaging. This however, is not unheard of in a TR6. MY 6 has several spacers on my slave cylinder to move it slightly backwards to give me "sooner" throw out of the throw-out bearing. BUT...your problem is that you can move the clutch arm by hand. This is usually an indication of a broken fork pin. How much can you move the arm in either direction? Kind of a redundant question as you should not be able to move it at all (by hand).
I am sure other opinions will be forth coming.
|Gordon-Just a couple more things that come to mind and maybe muddy the waters. I have found that the easiest way to verify that the clutch is releasing is to jack up the left rear wheel, put the car in gear (engine not running), depress the clutch pedal and try to turn the wheel by hand. When the clutch releases, the wheel will be easy to turn. You can also determine where the clutch releases in relation to the pedal travel.|
If the clutch isn't releasing, check the travel of the slave cyl. push rod-should be a min. of 1/2". If this isn't happening, try bleeding (the bleed screw should be on top) as air in the system will compress and reduce the push rod travel. Also, check for elongonated holes on the master&slave cyl. clevis and pedal arm. Any free play at these pivot points will also reduce the push rod travel.
Also, if there is excess movement of the crank shaft from worn or dropped thrust washers, the effective travel of the slave cyl. pushrod will be reduced.
The clutch release mechanism is pretty marginal with the smaller .700" master cyl. and it doesn't take much lost motion to cause problems.
Were you able to detect any rocking of the fork on the shaft that would point to a broken pin?
If the locking pin is faulty, my two cents advice is to replace it with an uprated one.
|J. G. Catford|
|Ok next problem|
When everything is cold the clutch works well. It disengages and engages properly. However when things warm up I cannot disengage the clutch. Any ideas? No leaks by the way.
Your present problem may be the hose between the slave and the master. With age, the hose can start to deteriorate on the inside and as it heats up it can restrict the flow of fluid in both directions. Here is a good upgrade.
|You can also order the hose from The Little British Car Co. Part No. 584-785 http://www.lbcarco.com/|
If you have the Moss Motors parts book look at page 24.
|The hose I have is not rubber and the plastic is not degraded. I did change it because it is simple and cheap but I still have the same problem. Any other advice? Suggestions?|
|Gordon, sorry to hear that the hose did not fix your problem. Do you have the correct oil in the trans.|
Here is a link to the 6Pack forum. This chap has the same problem as you. If your not a member of the forum
you may want to save this link to your favorites so you can repost it, to see if he resolves his issue, because once the post leaves the main page you have to be a member to search the archives.
|Thanks Joe I am using 20/50 oil in the transmission. I have read a lot of conflicting advice on oils so I went with my parts dealers choice. |
Actually resolving the issue may be more complex. I am going to do everything possible externally and if need be operate in the winter.
This thread was discussed between 14/04/2008 and 03/06/2008
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